Interview with Ellis Hartford

Partial Transcript: Dr. Hartford, when did you first meet Bob Martin?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford recalls his first meeting with Dr. Martin, referencing their service in the Navy and Army, respectively, during World War II.

Keywords: administration; World War II; WWII

Subjects:

Partial Transcript: Bob Martin has been known as an educator and a politician, and from your position as an educator, what do you think of his role as a politician and an educator?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford discusses Dr. Martin's view of politics as promoting education in Kentucky, and talks about Dr. Martin's decision to be campaign manager with Bert Combs in 1959.

Keywords: bonds; campaign; finance commissioner; leadership

Subjects: Bert Combs

Partial Transcript: Do you know of any other educators in this state or maybe in other states who have successfully combined politics and education?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford reviews the history of superintendents standing up against the governor and legislatures before commenting on Morehead president Adron Dorn, once state speaker of the house.

Keywords: governor; school fund; superitendent

Subjects: Adron Doran Earle Clements Morehead State University Robert J. Breckinrige

Partial Transcript: How did other educators react to Bob Martin when he went into politics in the late '50's?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford reflects on the general reaction among state educators when Dr. Martin announced his support for Bert Combs in 1959, but talks about the inseparable nature of education and politics in Kentucky.

Keywords: tax support; teachers pay

Subjects: 1959 Kentucky Gubernatorial election

Partial Transcript: What's your opinion of Bob Martin as superintendent of public instruction?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford rates Dr. Martin as superintendent, comparing him with superintendents from the 60's to the 20's, reflecting on his own childhood in Ohio county on the works of various state superintendents.

Keywords: public school program; state department

Subjects: Minimum Foundation program

Partial Transcript: Did the opposition from the Minimum Foundation program come mostly from the larger urban areas that were rather well financed at that time?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford reviews the history of education in Kentucky to reflect on past opposition to school funding, noting that teachers have numerous times throughout state history worked to advocate for increased funds, even against legislative opposition.

Keywords: educational history; local support

Subjects: Fayette County, KY Jefferson County, KY

Partial Transcript: Even though these great changes have taken place in Kentucky education, it seems that Kentucky seems to be one of those states that always ranks 48th, 49th, in some aspects of public education. Is it simply because we haven't made enough changes or because other states have outpaced us in change, or what causes that?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford looks back on the historic issues related to Kentucky education; a lack of state funds, resources, and public support. He cites historic influences as a potential reason for a lackluster public program, but criticizes attempts to bolster school activity as to negate individualism.

Keywords: public support; state history; taxes

Subjects: Kentucky education

Partial Transcript: Dr. Martin was superintendent of public instruction during years when public school integration became a very prominent issue, not only in Kentucky but in other states. Do you remember any of the problems Dr. Martin had during this time, in the late '50's?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford recalls the support of Governor Chandler and Dr. Martin, then superintendent, in ending segregation in public schools, and Dr. Hartford reflects on the first speech he gave to an mixed school assembly.

Keywords:

Subjects: Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka

Partial Transcript: How would you describe Bob Martin's philosophy of education?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford describes Dr. Martin's open philosophy on education, detailing how it influenced his dealings as superintendent and president of Eastern.

Keywords: foundation program; opportunity

Subjects:

Partial Transcript: While president of Eastern, President Martin has been characterized by beginning vocational schools and technical programs, nursing programs, law enforcement; does this seem one of the things he's always been concerned about?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford discusses the rapid buildup of programs at Eastern, voicing his concern about teacher division and the over development of some programs.

Keywords: bureau of education; special education; superintendent

Subjects: Eastern Kentucky State College Eastern Kentucky University

Partial Transcript: How did you react to Martin's appointment to Eastern Kentucky State College presidency?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford recalls his reaction to Dr. Martin's appointment, discussing the political and professional factors in the decision, and compares it to the appointment of Dr. Hill at Kentucky State.

Keywords: campaign; educational history

Subjects: Bert Combs Carl Hill

Partial Transcript: From 1962 to 1964, you were executive secretary of the Council of Public Higher Education in Kentucky, what was your relation to President Martin at that time?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford discusses his relationship with the presidents of the six state universities while on the Council of Public Higher Education, and details the limited responsibility of the board during his tenure.

Keywords: authority; layman; regional universities; superintendent

Subjects: Foundation Program of Public Higher Education Frank Dickey

Partial Transcript: There does seem to be though, maybe since your time, or since '64, a lot of competition in the Council on Public Education, and it has seemed at times that it's the state universities against the University of Kentucky, or at one time perhaps the state universities were adamantly opposed to adding the University of Louisville in the university system, so perhaps that competition is more open in the last ten years since you left the council...

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford reviews the history of the university system in Kentucky, and criticizes the open competition between the universities for state support. He talks about how the council on public higher education should move forward, as well as some state and university reform for funding education.

Keywords: conflict; divisions; KEA; leadership; state support; urban universities

Subjects: Adron Dorn Kentucky Educational Association University of Louisville

Partial Transcript: After you left the Council on Public Higher Education you became dean of the community college system in 1964. Is there competition between the University of Kentucky community college system and the regional universities?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford talks about the potential competition between regional universities and community colleges, then under the University of Kentucky, promoting the expansion of educational facilities and criticizing calls of duplication.

Keywords: regional institutions

Subjects: Council on Public Higher Education Kentucky General Assembly University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: What do you remember of Dr. Martin's reaction to the community college system?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford describes Dr. Martin's involvement on the community college system, as well as discusses possible ways to expand higher education to the southeastern region of the state.

Keywords: commuting; division; enrollment; hollers; occupational; self-help

Subjects: Adron Doran Appalachia

Partial Transcript: I think Eastern has a larger number of graduates from community colleges than any other state university, including the University of Kentucky...

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford discusses the relationship between community colleges and Eastern, detailing how two-year and four-year programs have been instrumental in expanding education across the state with community colleges.

Keywords: four-year degrees; occupational; service

Subjects:

Partial Transcript: Let's look at Bob Martin's relationship with some educational leaders and also some political leaders and what you may remember of Martin's reaction to these people and their reaction to him, as for example, President Dickey?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford details the relationships between university presidents and governors, particularly the conflict between regional leaders and Dr. Oswald, and explains some of Dr. Martin's qualities as president. Later in the segment Dr. Hartford describes Dr. Oswald's personality and Dr. Martin's relationship with other presidents and educational leaders while discussing Dr. Martin's early work.

Keywords: curriculum; faculty; law school; leader; policies

Subjects: Adron Doran Frank Dickey John Oswald Kelly Thompson Otis Singletary Wendell Butler

Partial Transcript: What about Bob Martin's connection with some of the political leaders, as for example, he obviously would've been rather close to Governor Combs but other political leaders like Governor Breathitt, did you know any connection there or any problems or anything?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford compares Dr. Martin's relationship with various governors, talking about policies and notable moments during each governor.

Keywords: community college; higher education

Subjects: Bert Combs Julian Carroll Louis Nunn Ned Breathitt Wendell Ford

Partial Transcript: How would you characterize Bob Martin's personality? He has a reputation as a strong, dominant college president.

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford describes Dr. Martin's personality, discussing Dr. Martin's reputation and legacy after Eastern.

Keywords: accountability; faculty; moderate; university senates

Subjects:

Partial Transcript: Why was Martin so successful in obtaining state and federal funds for Eastern?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford talks about Dr. Martin's political and financial savvy, discussing how he was able to rely on powerful figures to help him attain funds for Eastern.

Keywords: budget; commissioner of finance; governor; relationships

Subjects: Carl Perkins Washington, D.C

Partial Transcript: What do you know about President Martin's relationship with KEA?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford briefly covers Dr. Martin's experience with the KEA, later discussing the growing rift between public education and higher education, and how politicians have exploited it.

Keywords: AEK; secretary

Subjects: Advancing Kentucky's Education Kentucky Educational Association

Partial Transcript: Do you recall any stories or anecdotes regarding Bob Martin?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford shares a humorous moment between Dr. Martin and Ed Prichard during a luncheon.

Keywords:

Subjects: Edward F. Prichard Jr.

Partial Transcript: Martin seems to have a real interest in history, do you think you explain why that seems to be such an interest of his?

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Hartford talks about Dr. Martin's interest, and discusses how EKU obtained a historic one room school.

Keywords: educational history; teacher training

Subjects: Granny Richardson One Room School