Transcript Index
Search This Index
Go X

0:00 - Introduction

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: The following is...

Segment Synopsis: Intro to interview

Keywords: City Hall

Subjects:

0:57 - Early Life and Family Background

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Miss or Mrs?

Segment Synopsis: Background information of Alice Harris

Keywords: Harris, Gentry, Berea

Subjects:

2:56 - Education

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: When i started school down here.

Segment Synopsis: Background on Alice's education

Keywords:

Subjects:

6:21 - Job History

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Well my cousin had a restaurant.

Segment Synopsis: Information on previous job history

Keywords:

Subjects:

7:12 - Husband and children

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Who was he?

Segment Synopsis: Information on first marriage and children

Keywords:

Subjects:

8:36 - Second Marriage

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: You married again?

Segment Synopsis: Info on second marriage to Robert Harris

Keywords:

Subjects:

9:45 - Political Participation

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Do you remember the first time you voted

Segment Synopsis: Political history

Keywords:

Subjects:

11:04 - Job History 2

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: How long have you been in this position?

Segment Synopsis: Synopsis of job history

Keywords:

Subjects:

17:21 - Organizations

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Have you ever heard of Crossland Heirs?

Segment Synopsis: Organizations Alice is familiar with and involved with

Keywords:

Subjects:

20:41 - Church

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: I don't belong to them

Segment Synopsis: Church history

Keywords: First Baptist church

Subjects:

21:15 - Civil Rights Activities

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Was anything happening in Richmond?

Segment Synopsis: History of a black protest in Richmond

Keywords:

Subjects:

22:29 - Black Business

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: So many black businesses...

Segment Synopsis: History of black businesses in Richmond

Keywords:

Subjects:

23:38 - Names of possible contacts

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Is it alright if i...

Segment Synopsis: Different people whom could be contacted

Keywords:

Subjects:

33:29 - Parents

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: What did your parents do?

Segment Synopsis: Information on her parents

Keywords:

Subjects:

34:32 - Richmond High reunion

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: Do you participate in the reunions?

Segment Synopsis: No involvement in the reunion

Keywords:

Subjects:

36:30 - Closing

Play segment Segment link

Partial Transcript: We're about done for the day.

Segment Synopsis: Closing statements and agreement.

Keywords:

Subjects:

0:00

Transcript of a recorded interview with Mrs. Alice E. Harris Interviewer: A.G. Dunston Date: 27 Feb 1992 Place: Richmond, Kentucky Project: County Projects - Madison County - African Americans

The following is an unrehearsed taped interview with Mrs. Alice E. Harris conducted at the reception area in City Hall, Richmond, Kentucky. The interview conducted by A.G. Dunston, History Department, Eastern Kentucky University, conducted on the 27th of February, 1992.

DUNSTON: Today is the 27th of February, 1992. I am A.G. Dunston. I am proceeding to do an oral interview with Mrs. Alice E. Harris. We are at City Hall in Richmond at the reception area for this interview. So, there will be some interruptions during the course of the interview process. All right Mrs. Harris?

HARRIS: Yes.

DUNSTON: Okay. Is it Alice E?

HARRIS: Alice Elizabeth.

DUNSTON: Alice Elizabeth. Is it Ms. or Mrs.?

HARRIS: Mrs.

DUNSTON: Is Harris your maiden name?

1:00

HARRIS: No. Harris is my married name.

DUNSTON: Married name? Okay, let me turn up the volume up a little bit because you have a soft voice. I know it's going to come out real loud for my voice.

[tape turned off]

HARRIS: Sorry they interrupted.

DUNSTON: That's alright. Harris is your maiden name . . your married name.

HARRIS: Married name.

DUNSTON: What was your maiden name?

HARRIS: Gentry.

DUNSTON: Gentry. G-E-N-T-R-Y?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. Would you tell us all about where you were born, and when, can we know when, and your parents?

HARRIS: I was born in Berea, Kentucky.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: It's about 15 miles from here. I was born February 24th, 1929.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And my mother's name was Minnie Easley Gentry.

DUNSTON: Easley. E-A-S . .

HARRIS: L-E-Y.

DUNSTON: L-E-Y. Okay.

HARRIS: And my father's name is Lewis Gentry.

2:00

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And it was eight of us children was born to that family, this family, and. .

DUNSTON: Really? Okay.

HARRIS: And there's only three of us living now.

DUNSTON: Okay. Eight divided how?

HARRIS: Four boys and four girls.

DUNSTON: Really? Where did you fit in that?

HARRIS: I was the 7th.

DUNSTON: You were the 7th of the eight children?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. Do your sis. . . The ones who still live, are they in Richmond?

HARRIS: I have a brother in Berea and then a brother in Cincinnati. I don't really see him.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alright, let me check something out right quick.

[tape turns off]

DUNSTON: Umm, We were talking, I was talking with Mrs. Harris about her sisters and brothers and where they live. What's your first memory of Berea? Did you live in Berea long after you . . . ?

HARRIS: Well, no. After my mother died, and when I started school down here, when I was 12 years old, Richmond High. In Berea, we got to ride the county 3:00school bus from here to the high school.

DUNSTON: From Berea to . . . .

HARRIS: Richmond.

DUNSTON: To Richmond?

HARRIS: To high school. We could ride the bus everyday when we started in high school. We graduated from Berea school in, from, the 8th grade.

DUNSTON: Oh.

HARRIS: Then, we came to Richmond in 9th grade, and went through 9th through 12th at the Old Richmond High.

DUNSTON: Oh, I see. Do you remember what year this was? You were twelve on that first trip to the 9th, what was it? Ninth and 10th grade?

HARRIS: Ninth grade.

DUNSTON: Ninth. Do you remember . . . So, so, that would mean that all Berea schools, all they had for ... was a segregated system in Berea.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: And only...

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. So, they had a black elementary school. From 1 to 8.

HARRIS: From 1 to 8.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And from 9 to 12, we went to Richmond High School.

DUNSTON: Okay. And Richmond at that time was the Old Richmond High School that 4:00I've seen in records that say "colored" in the end of it, at the end of it.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm

DUNSTON: Okay. What do you remember about your days at Richmond?

HARRIS: Oh, it was fun days.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: We got to ride the bus back and forth every day. And, I remember basketball and football games.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, well it was just, just, just fun.

DUNSTON: Was it?

HARRIS: Yeah.

DUNSTON: In spite of the trips back and forth?

HARRIS: In spite of the trips back and forth, yeah, it was fun.

DUNSTON: Oh, okay.

HARRIS: It was fun. And, then, after my mother died, then my cousin, she took care of me and my other sister.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And she moved to Richmond. And when she moved to Richmond in . . . lets 5:00see my mother died in '43, and then her mother died in '44, so we moved to Richmond, I guess, in '44.

DUNSTON: Okay.. Alright.

HARRIS: And, so, I guess we lived here most of all of my life that I went to that school, I went to Richmond High about one more year, and then, I went to Dayton and stayed a while, and then came back to Richmond.

DUNSTON: Okay. Did you, so, you didn't finish through Richmond? You finished high school in Dayton?

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay. When you finished high school, did you come back immediately?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: After finishing high school?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm, we came back.

DUNSTON: Okay. Was it a move to Dayton for better job or is this something you can talk about?

HARRIS: Yeah it is something that I just went up there to live with my Aunt Mary.

DUNSTON: Alright, eco, more financial security,

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: With her there?

HARRIS: Yes.

DUNSTON: Okay. Then, did she move, does everybody move back there to . . .?

HARRIS: No, just, I moved back here because I, with my cousin and my brothers 6:00and all the rest of them moved back.

DUNSTON: Okay, okay. Moved to Richmond?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm. But my oldest sister, now she stayed in Dayton. She worked at the soldier's home in Dayton. She stayed in Dayton. That's where she stayed until she got sick. Then, she came home and then she passed away.

DUNSTON: Okay, okay.

HARRIS: And uh,

DUSTON: When you moved back here, what did you? Did you . . . um . . . ?

HARRIS: Well, my cousin had a restaurant,

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: and it was, we called it the Old Sandwich Shop, and I worked in there.

DUNSTON: Okay.

(Background voices)

DUNSTON: Okay. Your cousin . . . Do you remember the name, your cousin's name?

HARRIS: The cousin, the one that was in Dayton?

DUNSTON: That had, that had the sandwich shop.

HARRIS: Oh, yeah, Catherine Fox. She's still living.

DUNSTON: Is she?

(Tape recorder turned off) (Tape recorder turned on)

DUNSTON: Catheterine Farr?

HARRIS: Fox.

DUNSTON: F-O-X?

HARRIS: Yes.

DUNSTON: Okay. And, she was the one who had the sandwich shop?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm. Mmm-Hmm. And she still . . . Oh, she had kept the sandwich shop for a long time. . . and until even after we got grown.

DUNSTON: Mmm-Hmm.

7:00

HARRIS: And then, uh . . .

DUNSTON: So, you worked there for quite a while?

HARRIS: Oh, yes. For quite a while, yes.

DUNSTON: And then, then what? What'd you do after that?

HARRIS: Oh, after that, see I married.

DUNSTON: Okay, and, who was he?

HARRIS: Well, my first husband.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: He was Vertie Hawkins.

DUNSTON: Hawkins.

HARRIS: H-A-W-K-I-N-S.

DUNSTON: What was the first name?

HARRIS: Vertie.

DUNSTON: Vertie?

HARRIS: Uh-huh. V-E-R-T-I-E.

DUNSTON: Really? From Richmond?

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, then, he and I . . . I was married to him.

DUNSTON: And you had two children?

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: So, and so, you and Vertie Hawkins had two children?

HARRIS: We had two children.

DUNSTON: What are their names?

HARRIS: Freddie and Gwen.

DUNSTON: Freddie and Gwen?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. Do you . . . Are they . . . here? Are they in Richmond?

HARRIS: One's . . . Well, my son's in Atlanta. He lives in Atlanta.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And Gwen, she is a supervisor for Gibson Greeting Card.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: You say Gwen is a supervisor at . . . ?

8:00

HARRIS: Gibson Greeting Card in Berea.

DUNSTON: At Gibson Greeting Card in Berea?

HARRIS: In Berea. Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: My son works for an accoutant, he's an accountant for some company in Atlanta.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alright. So, the two children here . . . Did they go to . . . ?

HARRIS: Richmond High until they . . .Hold on.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: They both went to Richmond High until . . .?

HARRIS: Until they started Madison High School, when they closed up Richmond High and made it Madison. .

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And they had to go to Madison.

DUNSTON: Made it Madison? Okay.

HARRIS: They had to go to Madison.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alright. And then you married again?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Then, you married Mr. Harris. What was that date?

HARRIS: Well, see, my . . . my first husband and I were separated from . . .

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, I married in . . . '70.

DUNSTON: Mmm-Hmm.

HARRIS: I think that was it, right?

9:00

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I guess it was '74 . .'73 or '74, I married Robert Harris.

DUNSTON: Rob . . . Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: So, you married Robert Harris in '73-'74.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Is he from, from Richmond?

HARRIS: Yeah.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: He's from the north side.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Alright. And, the two children are the only two you have?

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Do you have any Harris children?

HARRIS: No.

DUNSTON: The two of you have any children?

HARRIS: No.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I just have the two.

DUNSTON: Okay. Let me ask you one more, let me back up here a minute. Were your parents born in Berea?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Both of them?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alright.

HARRIS: Both of them were born in Berea and raised.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, uh. . .

DUNSTON: Do you . . . Do you remember the first time you voted?

HARRIS: Oh, yes. I guess I do. Yeah it was here. Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: After you came back from from Dayton.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: And you were living here, Do you remember what President you voted for? 10:00The first President you voted for . . . I can track it down . . .

HARRIS: Let me see, I can't even remember . . .

DUNSTON: Did you . . . Did you think you voted for somebody . . . Did you vote for Eisenhower? Did you vote for anybody before Kennedy? Maybe that will help us.

HARRIS: Kennedy, oh yeah. You see, I was 20 years old when my daughter was born.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, so, I know I voted for somebody then, but I don't remember who it was.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: It's been 42 years ago.

(Laughter)

DUNSTON: I know. I know. Okay. Let me try, I know I'm trying to dig stuff out of you. Uh, Robert Harris, you married Robert Harris, about '73-'74, okay?

HARRIS: Mmm.

DUNSTON: And the two of you are still here in, in Richmond. Okay? How long have you been, uh, at this position with City Hall?

HARRIS: Well, see, after, after they closed up Richmond High, we started having 11:00Head Start and preschool out there.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: So, I started in '73, I guess . . . I started in '73 . . .

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And then, I think it was '73, well, I started teaching . . . they let me teach preschool at the old Telford, at Richmond High School.

DUNSTON: Okay. It was after, When the time when Telford bought the Old Richmond building?

HARRIS: Yeah. Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, then, it seemed like that . . . one of the purchases

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

HARRIS: It seems like they, I think they had enough money and something for them to open up a preschool in Telford.

12:00

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And I think it was '74. It's been about 18 years ago.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, um . . . And then, they . . . I started teaching . . . excuse me . . . teaching preschool.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Over there . . . And, I taught preschool over there until . . .

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: You were . . . were, uh . . . You were teaching preschool and you Head Start? Where most of the people, most of the kids, in the Head Start and preschool programs, were they mostly black?

HARRIS: Well, it was mixed half. See, Telford had a preschool and then it was the Head Start class in there too.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I helped them with the Telford preschool.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: How long did you, uh, stay there?

HARRIS: Seventeen years.

DUNSTON: Seventeen? Oh. And, then you retired? Okay. And, then, . . .

13:00

HARRIS: I came over here _____.

DUNSTON: You've been here since, uh, . . . ever since you retired from there?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

HARRIS: I'm going to be here, It will be two years in March.

DUNSTON: At the desk here?

HARRIS: Yeah. Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Over the 17-year period, if you can remember . . . Did your paycheck stub change from, who paid you from when you first started there?

HARRIS: I have to tell you, when I first started there . . . I was working from 9 in the morning to 12.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: That's what we were scheduled, a few hours. Fifteen dollars a week.

DUNSTON: Fifteen? Who . . . who paid you, the center or . . . ?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Really? Okay. And, then, over the years . . . you retired in 1990?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: In 1990, though, who was, were you being paid by the YMCA or by the . . . ?

HARRIS: By the Telford YMCA.

DUNSTON: Okay. So, the people who were handling the finances, that group has, 14:00had changed over 17 years ago.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Were you ever paid by the Board of Education?

HARRIS: Mmm-Nnn.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: No.

DUNSTON: It was the Telford as community center or the Telford as the YMCA?

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: How did you come to work here?

HARRIS: Well, I was good friends with the mayor, and I, you know my husband and his father used to work for her dad.

DUNSTON: For?

HARRIS: For the mayor's father.

DUNSTON: Oh, okay.

HARRIS: When she started campaigning to be mayor, well, she came out and asked me to help her campaign for her for mayor.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: So, I helped her. She was the _______ work for me.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: So, I said, well, I think I'm . . . I was going to on the Green Thumb, you know anyway. And she said, well, you can join Green Thumb and still work part time for the city.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: So, I worked part time for the city and part time for Green Thumb.

DUNSTON: What's Green Thumb?

HARRIS: It's, um, for elder people over 55.

15:00

DUNSTON: Okay. Is it a. . .

HARRIS: It's a government. . .

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Green Thumb . . . Is it . . . Is it government funded?

HARRIS: It's government funded.

DUNSTON: Is it an organization?

HARRIS: Yeah. It's, We got our checks from Washington because the government thing comes for older people.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Let me see if I can find one.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: If I can see for all this junk. Okay. This is . . .

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay. Green . . .

HARRIS: You see.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay. It's one of two national organizations. Okay. Oh, okay. Funded by the United Stated Department of Labor.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: What do you work out of? Do you leave here?

HARRIS: Hmm?

DUNSTON: Do you do your work here or for the Green Thumb . . . You can work here?

HARRIS: Yeah. Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay.

16:00

HARRIS: I work four hours a day for Green Thumb and four hours for the city.

DUNSTON: Okay. But, but, what you do with, with, with, What do you do for Green Thumb?

HARRIS: This.

DUNSTON: Telephone system.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Oh, okay. Is it located in this building or . . . Just you?

HARRIS: Huh? Just me.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alright.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Okay. I was just trying to get an understanding of what Green Thumb does?

HARRIS: Well, you see that they were in place, like if you want a job.

DUNSTON: Okay.

(Background voices.)

Knock on door.

HARRIS: How are you?

(Background voice: I'm alright. How are you doing?)

HARRIS: I'm fine. Um, if the courthouse needs somebody down there or the mayor needs somebody here to answer the phone. He said, well, we'll take up half of the pay and teach you.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: . . . But you have to pay if you . . . if the person that they hire is 55 . . .

HARRIS: And Negro only.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, then, after you work so long then they'll turn the cost all the way 17:00to the city, see? After . . . after March, it'll be two years.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

HARRIS: You see, they'll have to hire me all the way. And, then, Green Thumb will take that pay what they have given me and start up on somebody else.

DUNSTON: Mmm-Hmm. Mmm-Hmm. Okay.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm. It's pretty good. It's real neat. It is.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

HARRIS: It's real neat.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Okay. Let me ask you something . . . Have you ever heard of Crossland Heirs? What is that?

HARRIS: That's, was a family, my first husband.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: His mother was a Crossland before she married a Hawkins.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, do you know the lady I gave you, the name of Joretta Hill?

DUNSTON: Yeah. Joretta Hill, Uh-huh.

HARRIS: Now, she, she was my first husband's sister, and they, they were the Crossland Heirs.

DUNSTON: Oh, okay.

HARRIS: She plays the piano for the Crossland Heirs.

DUNSTON: Okay. Is it, is it an organization?

HARRIS: It's. it's just a family group that been singing.

DUNSTON: Okay.

18:00

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: So, they, they just, um, ?

HARRIS: You see, it was a family of sisters.

DUNSTON: Oh.

HARRIS: And they all sang.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And then after they all pass. They passed down to their daughters, took it up, and then they sang.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I think Joyce works up on campus.

DUNSTON: Joyce Far-?

HARRIS: Joyce Farris.

DUNSTON: What's the name?

HARRIS: Joyce Farris.

DUNSTON: Yes. I've, I've got that name.

HARRIS: Yes.

DUNSTON: I think that name is on my list.

HARRIS: Yeah. Joyce Farris and,

DUNSTON: Joretta.

HARRIS: Joyce had a sister named Mary Barr.

DUNSTON: Mary Barr. She's now a Black? Yes.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Alright then.

HARRIS: And Joretta is Joretta Healey.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: She said, She, They all, Mary and Joyce are sisters and Joretta, they first cousins.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: They were my first husband's . . .

DUNSTON: Family.

HARRIS: Family. Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. So, Uh.

HARRIS: They are the Crossland Heirs.

19:00

DUNSTON: They, I'm sorry.

HARRIS: They are the Crossland Heirs.

DUNSTON: The Crossland Heirs.

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: It's like a sing-, It's a, It's a, just a singing group or do they get together and have reunions or, ?

HARRIS: No. It's, It's just kind of a singing group.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Just about all of them's passed except these girls.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alright. Have you ever . . .

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Been involved in the early women's clubs in Richmond? Like the Women's Literary Club or the Women's Art Societies.

HARRIS: No. Nah-uh.

DUNSTON: What kind of social organizations did you belong?

HARRIS: Nothing. I didn't belong to anything, but I belonged to the Temple Elks. The Temple . . .

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: The Temple . . . Elks.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

HARRIS: The Temple Elks, uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Oh, okay. Is that, uh, uh, Is that a sisterhood for the . . . ?

HARRIS: Yeah. For the Elks.

DUNSTON: For the Elks.

HARRIS: For the brotherhood, you know.

DUNSTON: Okay. Was, was your husband an Elk?

HARRIS: No. No, he's not an Elk.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I just . . .

DUNSTON: I didn't know think . . . I didn't know you could be one if . . . ?

HARRIS: Yeah.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

HARRIS: We have formed a temple. Let's see, Marcia, she's one, and Elaine, and 20:00we just, we have a temple.

DUNSTON: Oh.

HARRIS: Uh-huh. We have a dominant Temple.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Thirty-two sixty-three is our number. And, we go to the Grande and, you know, to Nashville.

DUNSTON: Yeah.

HARRIS: And state too.

DUNSTON: Oh.

HARRIS: Yeah.

DUNSTON: Okay. Is it . . . Is it . . . Do you do community service or . . . ?

HARRIS: Oh, yes. Sometimes we get ______, week before last we had an Elks Lodge who came to visit us from Chicago.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And we, They stayed out at the Holiday Inn, but we prepared their food and stuff for them.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

HARRIS: But, I don't, I don't belong to anything. For church, I just go to First Baptist Church.

DUNSTON: First Baptist?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. Who's your pastor?

HARRIS: Reverend Blythe.

DUNSTON: Reverend Blythe. Has that always been your church home?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm. Since I been down here. I moved my letter from Berea from Middletown church.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: That's where I was first baptized there.

21:00

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I joined church and I moved my letter when I moved down here, and came down here.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alright. Okay. Um, do you know anything about, uh, you know, during the Civil Rights, Madison in 1962? Do you remember that? Was anything happening in Richmond?

HARRIS: Yes.

DUNSTON: Was there? Okay.

HARRIS: They had the Hinkel's Drug Store down there and that's where they had the first sit-in where they went in and sit down, and have a Coke, and they ordered there.

DUNSTON: What was the name of the drug store?

HARRIS: Hinkel's.

DUNSTON: Hill's?

HARRIS: Hinkel's.

DUNSTON: Eagle.

HARRIS: Hinkel. H-I-N-K-E-L-S.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: So, were they students from the high school?

HARRIS: Yeah. Just different, different people all in, They had marches and Reverend Goodloe was the pastor at the church then at First Baptist.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: You say some people were arrested doing . . .

(Background voices)

HARRIS: Hey, how're you doing?

(Background voice: Pretty good.)

DUNSTON: During the middle of the demonstrations and protest marches?

22:00

HARRIS: Yeah. Okay.

DUNSTON: Where have you found, uh, let's say, all the issues here, have you found racial problems in Richmond?

HARRIS: It's better. It's better.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: It's still in some places.

DUNSTON: Well, yes.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm, it always will be.

DUNSTON: Mmm-Hmm.

HARRIS: We've made it so much better than what it used to be.

DUNSTON: Is it? Okay.

HARRIS: Yes.

DUNSTON: Okay. Did you know, when I was looking over at Eastern, Looking through Eastern's library,

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: There seemed to be so many black businesses in the old days, and they don't, and they aren't there anymore.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm. You see, it's . . . I guess if you needed anything you had to have your own business.

DUNSTON: Yeah.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

HARRIS: I guess, but I don't know. You know, it used to be the tailor shops and things were around here. It used to be owned by black and, I guess, maybe generations just run out.

DUNSTON: Mmm-Hmm.

HARRIS: You know, somebody to carry on.

DUNSTON: Mmm-Hmm.

HARRIS: They died out. You know, there used to be a whole lot of black people surrounding.

DUNSTON: Okay, yeah. I saw a list of all the tailors. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

23:00

HARRIS: Tailor shops,

DUNSTON: Well, there's . . . Isn't there still one? Is, um, Mr. Ballew, Sr. I think is the only one.

HARRIS: Ballew.

DUNSTON: Ballew? Okay.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm. Yeah. I think he just retired here about a year ago.

DUNSTON: Did he? Okay.

HARRIS: And he's, he's, I think he sold that.

DUNSTON: Okay, okay. I've got that. Alright. Let's see, is there anything else I need to know at this point. (Laughter) You know, I do appreciate your talking to me because you've given me a lot of interesting things that I can check up on. Is it alright if I run some names by you, and you tell me if you remember any of these people?

HARRIS: Okay. Okay.

DUNSTON: Um, . . . Wade D. and Charlotte Thompson. Wade Thompson. T-H-O-M-P-S- O-N.

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

DUNSTON: Do you remember them?

HARRIS: I just barely can remember. They lived out on, um, Linden Street.

24:00

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I just barely can remember them.

DUNSTON: They were here when you were younger.

HARRIS: Yeah. I just barely can remember them.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: How about Embry . . . Uh, Mrs. L.E. Embry? Does that name ring a bell? Embry?

HARRIS: L. Embry, You know, Embry. I know a Willette Embry. She used to be one of my teachers.

DUNSTON: Used to be one of your teachers?

HARRIS: Uh-huh. Willette Embry.

DUNSTON: Okay. At Old Richmond?

HARRIS: And that might have been her mother.

DUNSTON: Okay. Okay. How about Mrs. W.R. Shackleford?

HARRIS: I know some Shacklefords but that evidently must be the mother. I think I know the children.

DUNSTON: Okay. It's in town . . .

HARRIS: William Shackleford and Sarah Shackleford. She married a Blythe. Robert Blythe.

DUNSTON: Robert Blythe?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Played football for Richmond?

25:00

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm. He's a doctor now.

DUNSTON: Is he? Is he here in . . . ?

HARRIS: No. He's a doctor in Washington, D.C., and he was in my class.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Alan Huguely.

HARRIS: Yes. I remember him.

DUNSTON: Okay. And I have a J.G. Fletcher. Fletcher.

HARRIS: Yeah. That's, he used to be the principal at the school.

DUNSTON: At, uh, At the Old Richmond High?

HARRIS: Old Richmond High. Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alright.

HARRIS: Then, I think maybe there was one time he was, he was teaching in Frankfort, I think.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alan Huguely. Do you know where?

HARRIS: Now, he's, he's passed.

DUNSTON: He has passed?

HARRIS: He has passed.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: But he has got, now down to the Park and Recreation Center.

DUNSTON: The what now?

HARRIS: The Park and Recreation Center is right there, you'll see. . . Two streets down to your left is the old armory, just on down on Second Street, and his son works there.

DUNSTON: Say that, Say the name of the recreation center again?

26:00

HARRIS: Park and Recreation

DUNSTON: Parker Recreation Center. And, and Huguely's son?

HARRIS: Uh-huh. Say, I do believe his son, and his name's Johnny.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And he works at Parks and Recreation Center. It's on the corner of Moberly and Second Street.

DUNSTON: Moberly and Second?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. Okay, second street.Okay. Do you remember Catherine Estelle Taylor?

HARRIS: Oh, Yes Ma'am. Her daughter was my history teacher.

DUNSTON: Um, Mrs. Taylor, Catherine . . .

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Was your history teacher? At the Old Richmond High School?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: She and her daughter, Patty Catherine,

DUNSTON: Uh-huh.

HARRIS: She lives down on First Street.

DUNSTON: Okay. When you moved, uh . . . When you moved here from Berea, where did you live? I mean what street was it?

HARRIS: We lived down on Parish Avenue. It's about two streets out this way to your left.

DUNSTON: Okay. Was it a black community out there?

HARRIS: Yeah. Mmm-Hmm. It was a black street. It was nothing but black people.

27:00

DUNSTON: People on? Okay.

HARRIS: At that time, it was in the white part of town, but it was a black street.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay. Okay. Are you still in that neighborhood?

HARRIS: No. I'm in Frazierwood in a new subdivision. I bought a home out there.

DUNSTON: How long have you been out there?

HARRIS: I've been out there about ten years now.

DUNSTON: Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

HARRIS: On Race Street. We used to live on Race Street. There was an ___ in the town, too.

DUNSTON: What . . . Which one . . . Where? Where you are now?

HARRIS: No where I'm at now in Frazierwood.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

HARRIS: That's a subdivision.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And then before we built . . . before we bought our home out in Frazier, we've been out there about ten years now,

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: We lived on a little street off. . .

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

(Background voices)

HARRIS: We, we lived on Race Street. A little street that's right off of Big Hill Avenue.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And then, we lived there for a while and then we bought our house.

28:00

DUNSTON: Okay. How about Andrew Miller?

HARRIS: Oh. Andrew's dead. He's my cousin.

DUNSTON: Are . . . Are you one of his cousins?

HARRIS: He married one of the Crossland sis-, girls. One of the Crossland Heirs. Mary Crossland.

(Background voices)

HARRIS: Okay.

DUNSTON: Oh. He did marry Mary Crossland?

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: That's one of the, uh, one of girls' aunt.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: One of the girls' aunt, you know, Mary Barr

DUNSTON: Yes, yes.

HARRIS: and Joyce and Jorette.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

HARRIS: That's their mother's sister.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay. Uh-huh. Alright. Um, Let's see, some more names. How about Marian Curry? You, you, you had done told me about her the other day.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. Um, Francis Harris Sweat. Francis Harris Sweat.

HARRIS: Francis Sweat.

DUNSTON: Mmm-Hmm. These are names that I've been, you know, when I read through old papers and stuff and I just pull out these names.

HARRIS: Yeah. I'm trying to think. Francis Sweat, it seems like I know her but I can't, I can't, It's not ringing any bells.

29:00

DUNSTON: Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

HARRIS: Now, I know Ms. Katie Elizabeth Sweat, but I don't think I know a Francis.

DUNSTON: There's Katie Elizabeth Smith?

HARRIS: Sweat.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I know that name, but I don't know, but I can't remember a Francis.

DUNSTON: Okay. Sam Miller?

HARRIS: Oh, yeah. He's the undertaker now.

DUNSTON: He is an undertaker?

HARRIS: Yeah. White's Funeral Home.

DUNSTON: Oh, at White's Funeral Home?

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: He's the, he's the caretaker at White's, you pull right up at the funeral home on East Main Street.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: It's before you get to Telford YMCA.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: It's right on that street.

DUNSTON: Okay. How about Alonzo Ballard?

HARRIS: He's up in Berea.

DUNSTON: Oh.

HARRIS: Yeah. He's the Reverand Alonzo Ballard.

DUNSTON: Oh, excuse me. Okay. Reverand Alonzo Ballard. He's in Berea now?

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Alright. And,

HARRIS: Yeah. He and my brother were raised up together.

30:00

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Do you know the name Mrs. Margaret Spears?

HARRIS: Oh yes. Now, she, Margaret is not very old. She graduated with my baby sister.

DUNSTON: Okay. Okay. And lets see, oh, Gonzala Bennette Stuart?

HARRIS: Stuart. Mmm-Hmm. She's still living and she lives . . . its right after you pass the YMCA, a street called Oakland, and she lives on that street.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: It's . . . It's about the second house after the corner.

END OF TAPE 1 SIDE 1

BEGINNING OF TAPE 1 SIDE 2

HARRIS: She was Bennett, her husband first, and then Stuart.

(Background voices)

HARRIS: She was Bennett and her husband used to the pastor at First Baptist Church where I belonged, The Reverand Titus Bennett, that was her first husband.

DUNSTON: Oh. Alright. Yeah. Okay.

31:00

HARRIS: Okay? And, then after he passed, let's see she had, I think it was three, maybe, after maybe she had three or four children. And, then he passed and then, she married Mr. Stuart. Mr. Stuart, he was an insurance man.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: For Mammoth Insurance, he was. He was an insurance agent.

DUNSTON: Okay. And, let's see, I think, Thomsomara Baxter is, uh, um, the next generation down.

HARRIS: Oh, yes.

DUNSTON: Have you heard that name?

HARRIS: That's Sam Miller's daughter-in-law.

DUNSTON: Okay. Sam Miller's daughter-in-law.

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay.Lets see. Oh, you just being so good to me today.

(Laughter)

HARRIS: I try.

32:00

DUNSTON: I can't think of anything I need to, unless there's anything you can think of about, What I'm trying to do is just, What ever you can remember about living here? You know, if anything strikes you, that you want to talk about. Its okay. Because I don't have a list of set questions that have to get answered. I just want to get a flavor for what you feel about Richmond. . . and its environment.

HARRIS: It's nice. It's, we've had, we've had a lot of changes around here.

DUNSTON: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Did you, I think, Andrew Miller. Did he marry Mary Crossland?

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Is he still living?

HARRIS: No. He's passed.

DUNSTON: Okay. He was the first black enrolled at EKU.

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Is my understanding. Is that right?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: He's the first to run for city council, too.

DUNSTON: Oh, was he?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: He was good. He taught school at the Old Richmond High too.

33:00

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Yeah.

DUNSTON: Okay. Alright. Richmond High teacher?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay. I'm, I'm just about done here unless there's something that, um.

HARRIS: I can't think of anything.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I imagine _______

DUNSTON: Well, what I do . . .

HARRIS: Sena Washington could probably fill you in in the up to date things _____ you know.

DUNSTON: Mmm-Hmm. Mmm-Hmm. Mmm-Hmm. Okay. What, what did your parents do? Where they farmers?

HARRIS: My daddy was a construction worker and my mother, well, she was a cook. She worked at Berea College. She cooked.

DUNSTON: Oh.

HARRIS: And Mama Fox, the lady who took us in after my mother passed, well, she was a cook at Berea College too before we moved to Richmond.

DUNSTON: I didn't realize that. Okay.

HARRIS: And Alonzo, he still does, I guess, Reverend Ballard.

34:00

DUNSTON: Uh-huh.

HARRIS: But he has, until he got sick. Now, he's sick and ill health now.

DUNSTON: Okay. Okay.

HARRIS: And, um, he's had two or three heart attacks

DUNSTON: Oh, has he?

HARRIS: Yes.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: But, he's cooked there, too. So, see, Mama Fox, that's what we called her, Mama Fox, Catherine and Alonzo are first cousins. They were sister's and brother's children, and we all came from a cooking family.

DUNSTON: Oh. Okay. I bet you can cook too, can't you?

HARRIS: Yes, ma'am. (Laughter) Yes, I can.

DUNSTON: Okay. I want to talk to you about, um, Do you participate in the reunion that's supposed to be? Do you participate in it?

HARRIS: No. Not to much. My sister and them go, but she passed away in '90.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And last time, they had it here, I went to three of the functions with her.

DUNSTON: Okay. Okay. And you told me the best person to ask about attending and so forth, would be Joretta.

HARRIS: Yeah. Well, she called me the night before last week to get some of the 35:00girls who was in my sister's class address and so.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: So, that's about it. She lives at 309, I think, Elm, Elm Street.

DUNSTON: Elm Street?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Do you . . . Do you know the family name Bronston?

HARRIS: Them, them, I think all of them is just about gone too.

DUNSTON: Is that, is that, uh, how, how can you link it for me? Is it just a black family name . . .

HARRIS: Yes.

DUNSTON: In Richmond?

HARRIS: Uh-huh.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: Let's see, Mr. Joe Bronston. He used to run a restaurant a long time ago, I remember that. He cooked and run a restaurant.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: And, uh. . .

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

HARRIS: He has a daughter that still lives, I think. She married a Breckinridge, Cooper Breckinridge.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: That lives down in Cincinnati. I think their son is a preacher. _____ 36:00church Bronston.

DUNSTON: Okay.

HARRIS: I think really they is about the only . . . deceased. I mean that's, All the rest of the them are deceased. I believe she is the only one in Mr. Joe's family still living.

DUNSTON: Oh, really?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: And you say.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Basically, we are about done for today. I'm going to ask your permission to call you if I need to on the telephone, if I need to clarify some information.

HARRIS: Okay.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

DUNSTON: Is that okay?

HARRIS: Yes. You can call me.

DUNSTON: I explained to you about the agreement that I'm going to ask you to sign in a few minutes, which simply says that this tape will go into the oral history program at EKU, which is located in my department, the history department, and if it's alright with you, I would like to turn it over to them. That's basically what this says and that later on, if somebody wants to do research, you know . . .

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: On black people in Richmond or on Richmond, period, then, the tape and 37:00information that we have recorded will be available to them. Okay?

HARRIS: Mmm-Hmm.

DUNSTON: Alright then. Thank you very much.

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2.