Partial Transcript: That wouldn't let you come in...
Segment Synopsis: Discusses segregation and racial problems which she faced in Richmond. Talks about Beatrice Huguely, Ida May Miller and Don Walker's wife, Esta Walker being arrested for trying to eat in a white restaurant.
Keywords: Beatrice Huguely; civil rights; Richmond
The following is an unrehearsed taped interview with Madge Reed Huguely, a longtime resident of Richmond, Kentucky, former director of the Race Street Recreation Center. The interview was conducted by A.G. Dunston of the History Department for the Oral History Center at Eastern Kentucky University. The interview was conducted at the Senior Citizens' Center on the 15th of October, 1992.
AD: Um, may I have your name, please?
MH: Madge Huguely.
AD: Madge Huguely.
AD: Huguely is your married name?
AD: What was your maiden name?
MH: Reed, R-E-E-D.
AD: Are you from Richmond, Kentucky?
MH: Borned in Madison County.
AD: Born in Madison County?
AD: Where in Madison County were you born?1:00
MH: Let's see . . . Where did my mother say I was borned at? Uh, ain't that awful?
MH: See, where was I borned at? I guess she had a . . . in Rich- . . . No, Iknow where I was borned at, good God. Out here [laughter] Out here on Irvine Road, they called it the Concord Road.
MH: Uh-huh. The Ordnance took it over. They took my mother's place.
AD: The house? You were born in the house?
AD: Uh, uh. . . In your mother's house?
AD: Okay. When were you born?
MH: Nineteen seventeen.
AD: Nineteen seventeen?
MH: June, the 28th.
AD: June 28, 1917.
AD: So, what's in Madison County and what's out on . . . Are you saying Corn-?
MH: Concord Road.
AD: Concord Road.
MH: That's right.
AD: Okay. Alright. Did you have any sisters and brothers?
MH: Did I? There was 14 of us. Nine sisters and five brothers.2:00
AD: Can you do me some names?
MH: You want the . . . Most of them . . . I'll give you the ones living or youwant the ones that are dead too?
AD: As . . As many of them as you can remember. Just say whether they areliving or dead.
MH: Well, Embry Reed.
MH: John Reed.
MH: Gibson Reed.
MH: Tilitha Reed, Cazilla Reed.
MH: Sarah Chenault, and, um, Ida Gassett, Ida Reed.
MH: And, um, Elizabeth Reed, and Cyrus Reed, and Cora Reed, and, um, Lucy Reed,3:00Madge Reed. A few of them I hadn't called. Did I call Julia?
MH: Julia . . . Julia Reed.
MH: And, um, Burnam.
MH: That's fourteen of us, I think.
MH: I think I named fourteen.
AD: How many still living?
MH: Um, Let's see, there's, um, Sarah Chenault is one. Elizabeth Matchen,that's two.
MH: Cora Collins, that's three.
MH: And, uh, Lucy Fox.
MH: Madge Huguely.4:00
AD: And you, okay.
MH: I know one of my . . . Embry Reed, I forgot.
MH: He died last year.
MH: Five of us living, I think. I have three in Cincinnati. No, let's see, Ihave three . . . There's Cora and Elizabeth. . . Cora and Elizabeth . . . I've got two in Cincinnati and three here . . .
MH: Five of us living.
AD: Okay. Um, uh, what did your father do? What was his name?
MH: Anderson Reed.
AD: Anderson Reed. What did he do for a living?
MH: He farmed.
AD: Okay. And, how about your mom? Your mother, did she do anything outsidethe house?
MH: No. Uh-uh. She just stayed at home.
AD: Okay. Was he . . . Did he farm family land or did he farm on shares?
MH: Well, I think he, uh, had a little . . . where we lived, raised tobacco and5:00corn, and I think it was just, you know, his own.
AD: Just his own farm land?
MH: Yes. Yeah.
AD: Okay. Alright. Um, where did you go to school? Which school did you go to?
MH: Concord. It's a Concord school. It's there no more.
MH: You see, it used to be. We used to have to walk three and four miles everymorning to school.
AD: Okay. Was it a black school for black children?
AD: Okay. Um, how far . . . How many grades did it have? How far up did it go?
MH: Eighth grade.
AD: Eighth grade?
AD: Did you graduate from . . .
MH: No. I got married when . . . you know what, you know how it is youngsters do?
MH: I was in the 8th grade, though.
AD: And got married?
MH: And got married. And, then, I went to a night school. I went back to6:00school two . . . two to three years. I was getting ready to go to Eastern to take . . . uh, for the uh, GED, and I got stricken with high blood pressure, and I never did go get it.
AD: Okay. Alright. So, um, any . . . So, after that, you don't have anyeducation after . . .
AD: You came out of Concord?
MH: Nope. No more. Then, I went to night school for about . . . I think I wentthree years.
AD: Three years?
MH: What do you call it, they have it now?
AD: GED program.
AD: Okay. Did you ever get your diploma or your GED?
MH: No. I said that I was getting ready and I got down with high bloodpressure. I should've went on and taken it, but I didn't.
AD: Who did you marry?
MH: Lucian Huguely.
AD: What's his first name?
MH: Lucian. L-U-C-I-A-N.
AD: Lucian Huguely?
AD: Okay. Was he from . . .
AD: From Richmond, too?
MH: Yeah. Down the road a little bit, we used to call it Moberly. You've heardof Moberly, Kentucky?
AD: Yes. Moberly. Alright. What year did you get married? What year was that?
MH: Uh, ain't that a sight. I can't figure that. Hmm. Let's see, I've, um . .7:00. We can figure it out. My husband died in 1990.
MH: He died the 2nd and the 9th would have been our anniversary and we wouldhave been married 57 years.
AD: The 9th of . . . ?
MH: The 9th of January.
AD: Of January would have been your 50th . . .
MH: Uh-huh. That was in 1990.
AD: Okay. The 50th anniversary, if he had lived in 1990?
MH: Yeah. He died that Tuesday, the second day of January, and the 9th, wewould've been married 57 years.
AD: How many children do you have?
MH: Eight. (Laughter)
AD: Alright. Let's talk about that. Um, what are their names and approximate8:00ages or guesses?
MH: Well, I'll just have to guess at it.
MH: Uh, Margaret . . . Uh, you want her maiden name or what she's married to?
AD: What she's married . . . uh.
MH: Margaret Moran and, uh, I believe, in May, she'll be 62. Cause she saysshe's going to retire. I believe that's right.
MH: But we can figure it out. I was, uh, let's see . . . Margaret was borned inMay, and I was 16 in June. (Laughter). If that'll help you any, I don't know.
AD: Yeah, it will. It will.
MH: You see, what I went through, I can't hardly remember nothing.
AD: Okay. She was born in May and you turned 16 in June.
MH: Yeah. Right. Um, I've been married all my life.9:00
AD: Mmm-Hmm. Mmm-Hmm.
MH: And the next one is, um, uh . . . Charles Huguely.
MH: And it's about four years difference I think in their age.
AD: Okay. Alright.
MH: And, the next one is, um, is Elizabeth . . .
MH: Williams. And I think there's two years difference in their ages.
MH: And the next one is, uh, Lucian. He's named for his daddy.
MH: Lucian, uh, Huguely. He's a junior. And, he's 51 'cause I can keep up withhim. The year before last was his 50th birthday and he took us all to Lexington for dinner on his 50th birthday.
MH: And, uh, Lucian . . . Sammi . . . Sammi Carol Kennedy. She's next to him.10:00I think there's two years difference in her age.
AD: Okay. Is it Sammi, S-A-M-M-I?
MH: And, um, she teaches there in Cincinnati. Um, and the next one is, uh,Johnny. And there's about two years difference in their age, I think.
MH: And the last one is Gary. I think it's two years difference . . . maybe . .. yeah, I think about two years difference in their age.
MH: And my baby is Julia Huguely.
MH: And I think she's 42, I believe.
AD: Alright. Okay.
MH: I don't think I left any of them out.
AD: Did you give eight? You said you had eight.
MH: Eight. Four boys and four girls. Johnny, Gary, Lucian, and . . . and11:00Charles is the boys.
MH: And, um, Margaret, Elizabeth . . . Margaret, Elizabeth, Julia, and Sammi . . .
AD: You're right. Okay. That's eight.
MH: (Clears throat) Yeah.
AD: Were they all born here in Richmond?
AD: Okay. At Pattie A. Clay?
MH: No. Two of them was, um. . . All of them born at home except Gary and Julia.
AD: Those are the babies?
MH: Yeah. Them last two, they was at Pattie A. Clay.
AD: Okay. Who attended . . . who attended you when they were born at home?
MH: Dr. Phelps. He's dead now.
AD: Was he a black doctor?
MH: No, he was white.
AD: Did he come to the house?
MH: He'd come to the house.
AD: Oh, okay.
MH: It used to be that you didn't go to no Pattie A. Clay to have no baby.
AD: You just . . .
MH: You just had them at home.
AD: He just came to the house.12:00
MH: When Sammi was born, I had a big nice bed in there and we kept foolingaround, and finally, he said, she ain't going do nothing, I'm going. And in a second he said no, you don't mind, I'll just get in that bed. He crawled in that bed and slept until 7 o'clock and I still hadn't done nothing.
MH: And then, he went home. And he hadn't been gone about a half hour, and thempains hit me about every five minutes.
AD: And so . . . Sammi came?
MH: She was born.
AD: And he had to come back?
MH: He had to come back.
AD: I don't know if I . . . I don't know if I asked you this earlier . . . Whatwas your mother's maiden name?
MH: Ballew. Maggie Ballew. Merriel Ballew was my grandfather and that was her daddy.
AD: Okay. The spelling . . . What do you say his name is?
MH: Merriel. Merriel. M-E-R-R-I-E-L. I think is the way you spell it.
AD: Okay. So, then, you are kin to the Ballew. There is a Ballew family linein the . . .
MH: Yeah. And the Reeds. That's right.13:00
AD: And the Reed family line. . . So, they're connected.
MH: No. This . . . uh, I . . uh, she married a Reed. My mother married a Reed.
AD: Okay. Alright. Because your maiden name was Reed.
AD: So, you are connected to the Ballew's.
MH: Yeah. My mother was a Ballew.
AD: Okay. Alright. Okay. Um, I do have a question . . . When you . . . Whenyou . . . I know you were busy raising the children. What kind of jobs did you have, if any, outside the house?
MH: Well, I, um . . . I did a lot of . . . I'd go out and cook for third parties.
MH: And then, after Julia got of age, uh, I did housework. I went and cleaned houses.
MH: Of course, after everybody's grown, I been hitting it every since.
AD: What are you doing? Are you still working?
MH: Yeah, I worked here.
AD: Here? But not . . . not, not, not with the houses, houses, you know,houses, and stuff like that.
MH: Oh, no. I can . . . I got a bad leg, and can't do that no more.
AD: Okay. Okay.
MH: I work at the Telford Community Center. I was the receptionist there for 15 years.14:00
MH: And, then, I got laid off some how. I don't know, but anyway, after myhusband passed. . .
MH: He passed on January the second, 1990.
MH: I couldn't live out there with my . . . you know, paying all of those bills,and I was wondering what I was going to do.
MH: And he was working for the center, and they came to pick up his papers andthings, and I asked them about a job. I told them that I want to stay in my home, and I just . . . wouldn't be no way what I was drawing that I could stay there.
MH: So, I got on . . . I got on then here, and I've been here three years.
MH: From the 9th of March.
AD: Okay. Where do you live?
MH: One nineteen Holly Street, Richmond.
AD: Holly Street in Richmond?
AD: Okay. Was that the home that you and your husband bought together?
MH: Yeah. That's right.
AD: Do you remember how long you lived at that address?15:00
MH: Well, I can keep up with it because Sammi, my daughter was born, Sammi,across the street, and she was born on Groundhog's Day, and we moved that following September.
MH: And she's 48, I reckon.
MH: Something like that. I've been there ever since.
AD: A good long time in that . . . in that . . . in that house.
MH: That's right. Yeah.
AD: Alright. Um, did you . . . when you were . . . when the children were grownup and when you were working at your jobs and everything, did you ever belong to a social club?
MH: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
AD: Which ones?
MH: Well, I'm part of the, we call it the Improvement Club. That was a social.We did . . .
AD: Improvement club?
AD: Okay. Do you remember what about that improvement club?
MH: Well, we, uh, . . . Let's see, I think we used to meet, but it's finallydied out.
MH: I think we met once a . . . once a month and would go from home to home.16:00
MH: And, um, they always did a lot of missionary things like people, you know,helping people that was in need.
MH: Sick and things.
AD: Oh, okay. Improvement club?
AD: Did you . . . Did you ever . . . Why do I have your name linked with an arts club?
MH: That's the arts club.
AD: Oh, it is?
AD: Oh, okay.
MH: Yeah. Improvement. Yeah, that's the arts club. I might've had the wrongname, but it was the arts club.
AD: Okay, arts club.
MH: And then I belong to the homemakers. I been in homemakers for 32 years.
AD: The homemakers club?
AD: Is that a city-wide club or . . . ?
MH: Yeah. It's all . . . everywhere it's called the homemaker's club. Theyhave difference groups, you know, and different names. Mine is named the Concord Homemakers. I don't know, I see, they have about 36 of them homemakers, and I belong to the Concord Homemakers.
AD: To the Concord Homemaker's Club?
AD: Alright. Okay. So, that explains then, the . . . that's why we tried to getto you, because I heard so much about various clubs.
AD: And the arts club was one of them.
AD: Okay. How did you get to be a member of that club?
MH: Well, it's been so long. Somebody invited me and I joined, I think.
AD: Uh, did you ever hold an office in the club? An . . . Were you an officer?
MH: Well, with the homemaker's, I was vice-president at one time.
MH: The Concord Homemaker's.
AD: Okay. Uh . . .
MH: I don't know. I don't think I had one in the arts. I mean . . . We calledit . . . It was the arts club, but we called it the improvement club. I think that was the name of it.
AD: Okay. Did you, uh, did you make things to sell to help . . . ? How did youraise the money to help people?
MH: Oh, I done forgot.
MH: It seemed like all of us paid dues. I think we did have something everyonce in a while. A fund-raiser project.
AD: Mmm-Hmm. Do you remember anything about those fund-raising projects?18:00
MH: I just can't remember. (Laughter).
AD: Okay. I want to ask you another thing too. Um, your husband . . . Hisfamily's from this area?
AD: Okay. Where does the Chenault come in? Does it come in from your side or .. . um?
MH: My sister married a Chenault.
AD: Your sister married a Chenault?
MH: Her name. She married Moll Chenault. That was my sister. She's the one.She's still living. She's been in the hospital for about six weeks, but she's doing alright now.
AD: Doing alright now?
AD: Okay. Is that . . . Is that the only time Chenault comes into the Huguelyor the Reed family?
MH: Yes. Yes. I think so because I don't think nobody else married nobody.
AD: Okay. Alright. Do you have a granddaughter that teaches at EKU?
MH: Uh-uh. No. She don't teach. She, um, yeah, I have a grand- . . . She used19:00to be a band director, but now she's with this one . . . What do you call it? Uh, she's in that building right over from the theater, but she has to walk. They moved and now on the top floor. She has a line of ramps that come down every day. She works now out. She goes out in the schools and tries to help the children like, uh, where they . . . I don't know what . . . Drop-outs or . . . keep them or help them, you know, stay in schools.
MH: Now, I can't think of the name, but she's still with Eastern.
AD: What's her name?
MH: Donna . . . Clark. She was Donna Williams, but she's Donna Clark.
AD: Donna Williams Clark. Okay.
MH: Yeah. Yeah.
MH: Yeah. That's my granddaughter.
AD: I think . . . I've been . . . I've been looking for you because every sooften, the name Madge Huguely would crop up, and I was trying to find out who Madge Huguely was.
MH: Yeah. Yeah.
AD: And I've noticed it in the phone book. Most of your children are still20:00here, aren't they?
MH: Uh, well, let's see . . .
AD: All of the boys are.
MH: Yeah. Gary . . .
MH: And Johnny . . .
MH: And Lucian . . .
MH: He lives in Berea.
MH: He lives in Berea.
AD: How many . . . How many brothers and sisters did your husband have?
MH: Lord, I don't know. Maybe I can name them? (Laughter). Let's see, there'sLucian. That's him, my husband.
MH: John, Elizabeth, Lola, Francis, James, and uh . . . James, and uh, . . . William.
MH: I think he had another William. . . That may be them. I hope I haven't leftnone out, none of them.
AD: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
MH: Muggie. She's dead. Muggie.
MH: One named Muggie. She got killed.21:00
MH: I think that's it.
AD: Okay. Uh, uh, have . . . Are any of those alive?
MH: Uh. . .
AD: Are any of his sisters and brothers alive?
MH: Uh, he's got . . . uh, he's got one brother, John. He's still living.
MH: And he's got one sister, Francis Covington.
MH: Covington. She's still living.
AD: Okay. And the others are deceased.?
MH: Uh-huh. NO! I'm sorry. Got one that lives in Cincinnati. I forgot her.Elizabeth Turner.
AD: Elizabeth Turner?
MH: Yeah. That's another one.
MH: Elizabeth Turner. What's a matter with me? I forgot about her.
AD: She lives in Cincinnati?
AD: Okay. When you were growing . . . when you were growing . . . When you got. . . After you . . . After you came out of school, you got married to raise a family . . .
AD: Was there any place in . . . in Richmond or Madison County that wouldn't letyou come in to . . . to do whatever you had to do because of segregation?
MH: Well, there's plenty of them places. They ain't been long opening them up22:00here in Richmond.
MH: My children sat in on them and everything.
AD: Did they?
MH: One night, um, five of them went to a restaurant up there and they told themthey had to get out. And, uh, they didn't move. Hardly anybody could get them out. But, anyway, he said he'd call the law, and if they'd have called me, I'd have five locked up that night.
AD: Oh, my.
MH: Why sure!
AD: That was . . . Was that in the 1960s?
MH: I guess it was.
MH: When my daughter worked at Westinghouse, she was living here then. Margaret.
MH: Yes, honey . . . I told . . . Me and a cousin of mine, she's dead now. . .23:00Cousin Cora Clark. . . We'd get out on the street and stand and watch them and if any of them got locked up, we'd go . . . We had our lawyers there to help get them out. I told them, I couldn't sit out because I'd be afraid I'd get upset if someone slapped me or spit on me, so I didn't do that part.
MH: But Beatrice Huguely, they locked her up.
AD: Who was she? Who was she to you?
MH: Well, her husband, Elmer Huguely and my husband, their fathers werebrothers. They are first cousins.
AD: Okay. Okay.
MH: They locked her up . . .
MH: And they locked up Ida Mae Jett.
MH: Ida Mae Miller.
AD: Okay. Alright.
MH: Oh, yeah. And, then, they locked up too, was, um, . . . she's dead now . .. Don Walker's wife, Esther Walker.
AD: Did they?
MH: Yeah. We was right in. We helped open the places.
AD: Mmm-Hmm. Okay.
MH: We had . . . We had . . . I forgot the name of it . . . We were . . . Had agroup of twelve of us. We met and we worked together.
MH: And these Sambo Niggers, a . . . a . . . alot of them didn't join it now and24:00would go around and tell everything that we planned to do to the white man.
AD: Tell the white people?
MH: Yeah. And some of them right now . . . Would go into these places . . .They wouldn't be in there right now hadn't been for us.
MH: A few of us working working to help them.
AD: Did you form an organization and made it tie together?
MH: Yeah. We . . . We . . . We had it. I forgot what we called ourselves.
MH: And there's . . . There was twelve of us, and we met from house to house.
AD: Okay. Alright.
AD: Were you ever a member of say . . . of the NAACP?
AD: Were you ever a member of the NAACP?
MH: I was in a long time.
MH: I'm not a member of it now.
AD: Okay. When'd you come out?
MH: Oh, I've been out of it a good while.
MH: Well, like I said, the NAACP, we was all working together.
MH: A lot of them didn't like Helen Phelps, and she was a good person and a goodleader. You see people that . . . Yeah.
MH: And after they did her so dirty about the NAACP. I never have joined with25:00this other bunch.
AD: Well, you . . . Can you . . .What . . . What happened? Can you tell me what. . . What do you mean what they did her so dirty? See, now, you talking about somebody that I don't know their history.
MH: Well, I can't . . . Maybe . . . I better not try to tell it, but I thinkthat she was the president of it for a long time.
MH: And they just . . . I don't know. . .
AD: They eased her out.
MH: Yeah. They kept after you, you know. And after you . . .
MH: She was a wonderful leader.
MH: People don't like her today but she was a wonderful leader. She is soon tobe 90 something years old.
AD: She's still living?
AD: What's her name?
MH: Helen Phelps.
AD: F-L . . P-H- . . .
AD: Do you . . . Do you know how I can get in touch with her? Will she talk tome even?
MH: I'm sure she will. She's sick. She has lung ... I'd say she has cancer,but I'm sure she'll talk to you. If I had a phone book, it's either in her name or Clay. Clay Phelps.
MH: Her husband's name is Clay.
AD: Phelps. P-H-E-L-P-S?
AD: Okay. I'll see if she might.
MH: She might remember to tell you all about it.
AD: Yeah. About . . . about that . . .uh, split and what happened to the NAACP.
MH: Yeah. She might can tell you that.
AD: Alright. Let's see, but you never were arrested. Because you just figuredyou couldn't take it.
MH: Noooo. I couldn't take it. I never was arrested.
AD: So, you didn't . . . you didn't march. You didn't . . . You sort of stayedin the background and did all the planning.
MH: Yeah. We just . . . We just stayed back so if any of them got arrested, wecould tell, you know, what happened.
AD: Okay. Okay.
MH: No, I never did.
AD: Mmm-Hmm. Mmm-Hmm. Okay. How about, um, were you scared for your children?
MH: Well, yeah, I was. I was afraid some of them was going to get hurt, butthey wasn't.
AD: Okay. What was your husband's position about them going out and protestingand demonstrating?
MH: Well, he was with us, you know. When they called Miss Jane, everybody waswondering where she's been. One of our members, see?
AD: Okay. So, neither you nor your husband tried to keep them from doing it.
MH: No, uh-uh. No, we didn't.
AD: Okay. Alright. Any other kind of racial problems you remember in Richmond?27:00
MH: Uh. . . You know I can't remember like I ought to. Well, see, they wasn't .. . At that time, the Westinghouse, they wouldn't hire no black. We had to break that down. They wouldn't hire no black.
AD: They wouldn't?
MH: I wish my daughter was here. Margaret. She's got a good memory. She couldtell you the story.
AD: Where is she?
MH: She lives in Cincinnati.
AD: Oh. Okay. Alright. Okay.
AD: Oh, okay. So, but, you remember the desegregation process in the . . . inthe . . . in the . . . in the area, right?
MH: Opening the stores . . . and the Westinghouse.
AD: Did any of your children go to Eastern Kentucky University?
MH: Yes, Lord . . . Let's see . . . My baby daughter, she had a nervousbreakdown. I stayed so worried and everything.
MH: She's one of the smartest people that ever been born. She went to Eastern,28:00worked her way through. We bought her one book. Then, she went to U.K., and worked . . . I mean got her master's in social I think works, what she got. Then, she came out and she went to law school.
MH: Made good marks. She went back for four years. Took all of her tests butone, and the teacher said she'd come in a Monday morning and throwed the books down and said, the hell with it.
AD: Which was that, Sammi?
MH: No! That was Julia. She's with me.
MH: And we can't get her to talk. We can't get her to do nothing. We've beentrying to help her. She's been up for 15 years. She's at my house right now, and just lays there and watches TV. And, if I forget my key or any of the family, she won't open the door or let us in or nothing.
AD: Which . . . They can't . . . Nobody . . . The doctors can't get her to talk29:00about it?
MH: I tell you, she won't go. We've about made up our mind that we are going tohave the sheriff to take her.
AD: Does she do any . . . She just sits there?
MH: She takes her bags and keeps herself really clean and she dresses up andputs her earrings on and braclets on, everything. She's just as neat as she can be. Every two weeks, she cleans my house. She's cleaning today.
MH: And she shines it. She . . . And then too, she'd do it . . . In two weeks,after that, she don't touch it. She'll wash the dishes. If it bothers her, she's got all them degrees. Sammi finished Eastern and she taught in Louisville, and she's teaching in Cincinnati.
MH: And, uh, Gary finished Eastern. Well, he got in trouble . . .
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1 BEGINNING OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2
AD: Gary? Okay. He still can't get a job.
MH: He hasn't been able to get a job.
AD: And how long ago was that that he came out?30:00
MH: It's been . . . It'll be two years in June, I believe.
AD: And he can't get a job here? Maybe he could go someplace else?
MH: Yeah. Well, they have to put that on his record. I think it's wrong. Ithink when a person serves their time, they've been punished. They ought to be allowed an opportunity. Don't you?
AD: Yes. Yeah. To get . . . Yeah. To get back in the mainstream. Because aslong as you keep that there . . .
AD: He's going to have problems.
MH: Yeah, but you have to put on there . . . on them. They ask that on them applications.
AD: Yeah. They do.
MH: If you . . . If you . . If they catch up with it and find out you've beenthere and you didn't put it down, then they automatically fire you.
AD: Yeah. That's true. Yeah.
MH: And then, Lucian, Jr. The one that lives in Berea. He finished Eastern.
AD: Okay. What does he do?
MH: He works . . . um, you've read a lot of blasting about that. He works atKentucky Central. He has an office there.
MH: Where they been talking about . . . that's mainly . . .
MH: Yeah. He's afraid he ain't going to have a jo- . . . He don't know what31:00they are going to do over there. And, he's been there 15, I think it's 15 years.
MH: You see, I think them the ones. Uh, Julia, Gary, Sammi, and Lucian Jr.
MH: Charles, he went to a trade school in Louisville.
MH: And, Margaret was my first baby, and we didn't have no money, but she'sholding an director's job in Cincinnati.
AD: Okay. Okay.
AD: Alright. So, um . . . What are you going to do now? Are you going tocontinue to come out and help here?
MH: Yeah. As long as I'm able. I'm going keep on, uh, marching and, uh,jumping as long as I'm able.
MH: About every weekend, I find somewhere to go. I just . . . I can't sit there.
MH: I find somebody . . . I don't drive, but I call somebody and I say I'm32:00lonesome. I . . . You know, I miss my husband.
AD: Mmm-Hmm. Mmm-Hmm. Mmm-Hmm.
MH: And I've called some of them to come and take me so and so, and I can't . .. When that sun is shining, I've got to go.
AD: Okay. You don't drive or you can't drive?
MH: I never did learn how.
MH: I've got my books in there. I've been studying, but I think I'm too old forthat. (Laughter).
AD: Oh, you could give it a try. You could give it a try.
AD: That's something I want to ask you too about . . Oh! Tell me yourbirthday again, and I'll tell you a story.
MH: Okay. My birthday is . . . um, the year is 1917. June, the 28th.
AD: June 28th.
AD: Okay. So, was it last year that you got a surprise birthday party?
MH: Right here, yeah.
AD: Right here at the center.
MH: That's right.
MH: They'd like to kill me that day.
MH: Well, it was such a surprise and . . .
AD: You had no idea, really?
MH: I had no idea.33:00
MH: And the one lives in Berea. My son from Cincinnati and his wife came Fridaynight, I believe it was.
MH: And he . . . They didn't tell me nothing, and right after they left . . . Itook the blinds down and I was washing blinds. I didn't know nothing was going on. I took the curtains and everything down.
AD: Okay. Okay.
MH: My son called me and he says . . . I got a telephone call, and he always . .. He was getting the phone. I thought that was something unusual. And he said, 'This is Junior'. That's the one that lives in Berea, is having car trouble.
AD: Mmm-Hmm. Right.
MH: And we are going to have to meet him out here.
MH: And Lord, have mercy. We pulled up. He's out there in the truck taking thehood and everything up.
MH: And my niece, it was about that time . . . She was coming to the thing, butI didn't know it.
MH: And, uh . . . Carolyn. The little devil.
MH: She come running out. Come on in here and wait until they get that car34:00fixed. (Chuckles) And so then, uh, we got out and come on in. So, I just stopped right there in that little room, you know. All the cars were parked on the back side.
AD: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
MH: So, uh. She said take that daughter-in-law - that's Charles' wife and showher around. And I walk into that the little door and I said, well, we can't go in there. There's a whole lot of people. And, see, I never recognized none of them. And, when I got to the door, they started singing Happy Birthday.
MH: It was one of the most beautiful occasions.
MH: It was really nice.
AD: Family and friends?
MH: Yeah. It was nice.
AD: All waiting for you?
MH: Yeah. All of them in there waiting for me.
MH: They started singing Happy Birthday when I went in.
AD: Okay. She had . . . I was sitting out there. I was telling her I wasreading a caption you gave me and . . .
MH: Yeah. Yeah.
AD: And, so, she told me about the birthday party.
MH: Yeah. It was really nice.
AD: Okay. And I'm glad you were really surprised.
MH: Honey, I was surprised to death.35:00
AD: Alright. That means your sons and daughters were thinking about you.
MH: Yeah. It really was nice. They gave us a 50 year wedding anniversary atKeen building up there. That's where they had it.
AD: At Keen on campus.
MH: See, all my kids went up there and they rented that building. They let themhave it.
MH: It was beautiful.
AD: For 50 years.
MH: We said our vows over at the where you get married. What do you call that building?
AD: Uh, renewal. . .
MH: The Chapel.
AD: Renewed your vows here at the Chapel.
AD: On campus?
MH: On campus. And then, we walked there to the Keen Johnson Building andthat's where they had the reception.
MH: Now, it was nice.
AD: What year was that 50th anniversary?
MH: Uh . . . What year was that? Well, I can count back. Let's see, I've been36:00married . . . No . . Lucian . . . Whoo . . . we've been married 50 years. I done forgot what year it was though.
MH: I've got all that down at home, but I don't remember.
AD: Okay. 'Cause I was trying to count back with you.
AD: Okay. If he had lived to January the 9th, that would've been . . .
AD: Okay. Fifty-seven.
MH: Yeah. See . . .
AD: Oh, that's my fault then. I added wrong.
MH: Yeah. Yeah.
AD: Okay. So, uh, 1990 was 57 years.
MH: That's right.
AD: Okay. So, we can count it back from there. Alright. So, the kids gave youall a little something.
MH: Oh, they did. The funny part about it. They had got everything. And Isaid, well, now, I'll . . . They invited a lot of people . . . I said I'll furnish . . . Lucian and I will furnish the food. No, you're not furnishing nothing. We's doing this.
MH: And, one day, a box comes through the mail and I thought, what in the worldis this? What is it? And my daughter, Sammi, the one that teaches in Cincinnati. My dress, I still got it - beautiful. She had sent me a long slip. I jumped her . . . I said at least I can buy me a slip. And she said, we don't want you to buy nothing. Just want you to be there.
AD: That's right.
MH: They really dressed us up. I go so many . . . I got . . . What was it wegot? We got $800 dollars in money, I believe it was. And I never saw the like of nice gifts. It was wonderful.
AD: I know it was. How many grandchildren do you have?
MH: Um, I've got thirteen grandchildren and five great-grandchildren.
AD: Oh, okay.
MH: I've got one of them here. I'll show it to you. I'll show you my oldest.I went to Cincinnati and she had these made. I don't think I took them out. 38:00Maybe I took them out of here.
AD: What, your oldest grandchildren or great-grandchildren?
MH: Uh, uh-huh. Well, I guess I took them out. No, here they are. That's myoldest granddaughter. That's her daughter. That's my great-grandchild.
AD: Oh. That's beautiful.
MH: Mmm-Hmm. She's my oldest granddaughter. She holds a big job in Cincinnati.
AD: That is gorgeous. How old is the little one?
MH: Uh, she . . . She had that picture made at Christmas. Uh, What is she . . .nine, I guess?
AD: What does your granddaughter do? Where have I seen this face?
MH: Her name . . . We call her Tony, but her name is Antoinette. Now, she'sover a big store there in Cincinnati.
AD: Does she . . . a buyer?
MH: Yeah. Yeah.
MH: Yeah. She buys stuff for the store and all of that.39:00
AD: Oh, okay. Oh. That's a beautiful grandchild and great-grandchild.
MH: Yeah. This is her right here. That's the same one, just little.
AD: Uh-huh. Looks to be about 8 or 9.
MH: Yeah. I think that's about what she is. Yeah. I just wish you could havebeen here at my birthday. They all made . . . made the sacrifice. All eight of my children were here.
MH: All thirteen of my grandchildren.
MH: And all five of my great-grandchildren were here.
MH: I just wish you'd have been here.
AD: Did you get . . . They took pictures. Did they take the pictures of everybody?
MH: Yeah. I think they did. Yeah. Uh-huh.
AD: Okay. Okay.
MH: It was nice.
AD: Oh, I bet it was.
MH: It really was.
AD: Okay. Ms. Huguely . . .
AD: Uh . . . Let's see . . . I can't think of anything more I want to talk toyou about today, but I'd like to . . . I'd like to know if I can call you on the telephone or come back again if I think of something.
MH: Yeah. Yeah.
AD: I'll call you and let you know what I need your input about and ask you if,40:00you know, you think of anything that you want to go onto this kind of recorded record.
AD: About your life or about Richmond and the black community.
AD: You can give me a call. I'll leave my name and number with you and I'llcome back and get that information recorded too.
MH: Yeah. Now, you want to know about the community?
AD: Yeah. Yeah.
AD: Black community. You know, anything that you can remember about the black .. . Oh, I know . . . There used to be an old cemetery. Do you have any idea what I'm talking about? An old black cemetery. I know there used to be one but I can't get a focus on it.
MH: I guess it must be the . . . It must be on Four Mile or something. A realold one over there.
AD: Four Mile?
MH: On Four Mile Avenue.
AD: Okay. What . . . What . . . Is that where black veterans would be or black community?
MH: No, I guess. I don't know whether there were any veterans there or not, buta lot of the elder people have been buried there.
MH: That's the oldest one and they call this the Old Cemetery.
MH: That's on Four Mile Avenue right there.
AD: Four Mile Avenue?41:00
AD: Alright. Do you have any . . . Do you know anybody . . . I know where I'mgetting this from . . . Elmer Huguely . . . Tell me who he was again.
MH: Elmer Huguely?
MH: He was the first cousin of my husband. They live on East Main Street.
MH: Now, he married married Beatrice Huguely.
AD: Okay. Was he or one of the Huguely brothers a caretaker for one of those gravesites?
MH: Oh, that was Ed. Ed Huguely.
AD: Okay. Who was he? Who was he?
MH: That's Elmer's brother. He's dead.
AD: Okay. Alright. So, he was a caretaker.
MH: I think he used to be right over there or right on back there. The cemeteryon Main Street, you know, towards where I live. You know, the colored cemetery.
AD: Okay. Okay. Is that the colored cemetery . . .
AD: On Main?42:00
MH: Uh-huh. That's all colored over there.
AD: Oh. Okay. Okay. And another question, too, is . . . Did there used to bea recreation center on Race Street?
MH: I used to supervise it.
AD: Alright. I knew I was . . . (Laughter). Alright . . . What . . . what . .. what was . . . what was it? A school? Or was it just a community center?
MH: Well, uh, see, we bought that ... we bought that building and . . .
AD: Who's we? We who?
MH: Well, I've got the names. A lot of us got together.
AD: Okay. In the community?
AD: Okay, bought the building?
MH: Yeah. Yeah. And see, at that time, we didn't have nowhere for the childrento go. Telford wasn't here about nowhere.
MH: And, I used to be 60-65 children, and I volunteered for . . . I don't knowhow many years, from 1 to 5 everyday with those children.
MH: Had a good time down there.
MH: Cause I wouldn't fool with them now. But the children then was mine.43:00
MH: But now, I'm scared of them. They got these knives and these guns.
AD: Yeah. It's a different kind of times.
MH: But, yeah, I worked down there a long, long time. And, then, there was awhite minister that came in and worked with us. I can't think of his name. He lived . . . I think he was from Irvine.
MH: But, anyway, he said. . . . he told them down there, and said, we're goingtry to get some money for me. So, I could, you know, be paid. And he did.
MH: And then, I worked a long time down there and they paid me.
AD: Do you remember how many years you . . . you . . . you ran the center onRace Street?
MH: No, I don't. But I was down there a long time.
AD: Is it still there?
MH: No. No. They tore it down.
MH: We sold it, because after they got Telford going, you know how black people do.
MH: ___ supporting the black, but once started. It was everything they had.44:00Everybody sold it to Telford.
AD: To Telford. Okay. Alright. What . . . What . . . Did you have activitiesfor the children?
MH: Uh-huh. We played . . .
AD: In the afternoon?
MH: We had games and they played ball there. We had a lot and you could run allthe way back. Yeah.
AD: Oh, okay.
MH: Uh-huh. And then, we had . . um, the students from Berea College would come. . . I think three times a week and help me with them.
AD: Okay. Oh, okay.
AD: What was the name of the center? Just Community Center?
MH: Race Street Community Center.
AD: Race Street Community Center?
AD: Okay. So, I think . . . It shouldn't be hard for me to find out something,uh, uh, there ought to be some deed papers. It was actually purchased outright by a group of you?
AD: You bought the building.
MH: Yeah. I don't know whether there's anything on it. Yeah, we bought it.And we sold it.
AD: The . . . Was it an organization that bought it and sold it or just a groupof you?
MH: A group of people.
AD: Okay. To try to do something for the kids in the community?
MH: That's right.45:00
MH: And we did do something for a long time.
MH: Then, we would have food sales there.
MH: And we raised money by food sales to help pay it and all of that.
AD: Okay. Alright.
MH: Yeah. I wish I had the money that I had worked down there making pies and everything.
AD: You can cook?
MH: Used to be, but I can't now.
AD: I know 'cause you . . . When we were talking earlier, you said somethingabout you used to do parties and cook there.
MH: Yeah. Yeah. I used to go in, you know. . . I cooked on weekends and go andcook dinners and serve parties.
AD: Okay. You were . . . You were a good cook. You don't cook much any more?
MH: Yeah. I have to cook right smart, but you know.
MH: My . . . The other week I went to the grocery, and I said I'm getting me twocans of these little biscuits. My son looked at me and said Mama, are you using canned biscuits? I said, yeah, I'm going for the . . . I'm cutting out now.
AD: Okay. Okay. You used to make your own biscuits?46:00
MH: Oh, yeah. I'm get lazy lately, and I'd make all my biscuits.
MH: Yeah. I had a big batch of rolls I made the Sunday before. They was real .. .
AD: From scratch?
AD: Okay. [Laughter]
MH: Yeah, from scratch. That's right.
AD: Okay. Oh, alright. I bet you were a good cook.
MH: I used to be. I'm still a pretty good cook, but I don't cook as much as Iused to.
AD: Okay. Because you don't want to take the time.
MH: No. Usually sometimes on weekends, like, I decided to cook the big dinner.
AD: Well, okay. Okay. I got to thinking . . . I've been sitting here for thelast few minutes trying to figure out what's going on and you've got to go . . .
AD: Get ready for lunch. Why all these names that I finally got . . . Okay,there's Ed Huguely that used to be over the . . . uh. . . caretaker for the . . .
AD: And it was called the colored cemetery. The one on Main Street.
AD: And there was a recreation center, a community center on Race Street.47:00
MH: That's right. Race Street Community Center. That's right.
AD: Okay. And you supervised and directed it?
MH: Yes. I did it.
MH: I sure did.
AD: Alright. Okay. Until Telford?
MH: Well we stayed there a little while after Telford.
AD: After Telford opened?
MH: I've forgotten when we sold it. But, we sold it.
AD: I can . . . I can find out. There's got to be a record.
MH: Yeah. Yeah.
AD: You know, somewhere about that building.
AD: What's . . . Do you know what's there now? Is anything there in that spoton Main Street?
MH: Uh-uh. Let's see . . . They built, uh. . . I think somebody . . . Yeah,they built a house. Somebody bought it and put a house up there.
AD: Oh, okay.
MH: Uh-huh. They tore it down and they done put a house up there.
AD: Oh. Okay. Alright. Mrs. Huguely, thank you very much.
MH: Yeah. Well, I've enjoyed being with you. (Laughter).