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0:00 - Introduction

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Partial Transcript: The following is...

Segment Synopsis:

Keywords:

Subjects:

0:45 - Background Information

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Partial Transcript: Good afternoon...

Segment Synopsis: Gives personal information, and gives background information on childhood and family.

Keywords: Richmond, Woodland Avenue

Subjects:

9:28 - Educational background

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Partial Transcript: Where did you go to elementary school?

Segment Synopsis: Discusses her education throughout her life.

Keywords:

Subjects:

15:23 - Employment

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Partial Transcript: Then I went to Maryland.

Segment Synopsis: After getting her masters she joins teachers job search and gets employed in Maryland and teaches in different locations.

Keywords:

Subjects:

30:08 - Organizations

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Partial Transcript: Are you a sorority?

Segment Synopsis: Discusses organizations she was part of and still take part in.

Keywords: Robert Mitchell, Art Club; Zeta Pi Beta, Eastern STAR, NAACP, Who's Who

Subjects:

44:59 - Church

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Partial Transcript: Tell us what church.

Segment Synopsis: Discusses her church and her faith.

Keywords: First Baptist, Main Street, Richmond

Subjects:

49:27 - Family and stories

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Partial Transcript: Do you drive?

Segment Synopsis: Discusses family members and shares stories of different topics.

Keywords: Richmond, Madison County, Noland families

Subjects:

65:36 - Interracial Relations

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Partial Transcript: Is there any place you wanted to go but couldn't?

Segment Synopsis: Says there was never too much racism, just little things here and there.

Keywords:

Subjects:

71:44 - EKU

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Partial Transcript: Dual education course...

Segment Synopsis: The two ladies discussing working at EKU, and Stone goes on to discuss EKU and retirement and Education of Blacks.

Keywords: EKU, Richmond

Subjects:

0:00

The following is an unrehearsed taped interview with Kara Lynn Stone, long time resident of Richmond, Kentucky and professor emeritus of Eastern Kentucky University. The interview was conducted by A.G. Dunston of the History Department for the Oral History Center of Eastern Kentucky University. This interview was conducted at her home, 315 Hill Street in Richmond on the 24th of March, 1993.

AD: Testing one, two, three, four.

AD: Good afternoon.

KS: Hi, how are you?

AD: Fine. Thank you. Would you give us your full name, please?

KS: My name is Kara Lynn Stone.

AD: Alright. Would you spell the Kara.

KS: K-A-R-A. And Lynn. L-Y-N-N.

AD: Alright. Is it Miss or Mrs.

KS: Miss.

AD: Miss Stone?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Alright. Where were you born?

KS: I was born right here.

AD: In Richmond?

KS: In Richmond, hmm-mmm.

AD: May I ask you when?

KS: In 1929, November 30th, 1929.

AD: November 30th, 1929?

KS: Yeah.

AD: Were you born in a small hospital?

KS: Yeah. Pattie A. Clay. Well, there was an infirmary and it wasn't where it is now. It was over here on Woodland Avenue.

AD: On Woodland?

KS: Woodland Avenue. Uh-huh.

AD: Was it called Pattie A. Clay then?

KS: Yeah, but it was an infirmary, not a hospital.

AD: Pattie A. Clay Infirmary?

KS: Infirmary.

AD: Okay. Did most black people go to it?

KS: Yeah. That was the only... Well, they had the Pope Hospital and the Pattie A. Clay, and there was another hospital. I can't remember because I didn't go. We all went to Pattie A. Clay. AD: Okay.

KS: It was in the same general area where most black people lived.

AD: In this area?

KS: So, we were...It was about four streets over.

AD: Okay. Okay. Pattie A. Clay Infirmary?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Alright. Do you have any siblings?

KS: No.

AD: You're an only child.

KS: Only child.

AD: Would you tell us something about your parents?

KS: Um, let's see, my father's name is J. Just a J. Lynn Stone and I don't know when daddy was born, but he was...This is his house.

AD: Alright.

KS: My mother came to this house as a bride in 1918. And he finished _____ in that year, 1918, and she didn't go to college but she went to a beautician school, Madame C.J. Walkers in Chicago.

AD: Yes. Okay.

KS: Okay, so then, she...when they did some time in the Army, he was not physically able to do, uh, in the field as a real soldier, per se, but he would...he knew office work. So, they kept him.

AD: Okay.

KS: He was the...He went to...to a corporal's range and he did office work. He paid out all the leaves and all the...He did all the paperwork in the office and it was down at Louisville.

AD: Okay.

KS: They had a camp in Louisville. And, so, mother then...While he was there, she started doing hair work out her on this little porch here.

AD: Right here?

KS: Yeah.

AD: Okay.

KS: Then, when daddy came out of the Army, he took his bonus money and they finished building that in.

AD: Okay.

KS: They extended it because this was just...it was just a certain spot and they extended it on.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, she had a two-chair beauty parlor. That was in the good old days when you didn't have all the rules and regulations.

AD: Right.

KS: So, she did...She stayed here 35 years doing that. So, she was always at home while I was growing up.

AD: Cutting hair. Uh, she...She passed away?

KS: Yeah. She died four years ago.

AD: Okay. What was her maiden name?

KS: She was a Noland?

AD: N-O-L-A-N-D.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: From this area?

KS: From this area. Her mother was a slave on Cassius Clay's farm.

AD: Alright.

KS: And her mother's name is Celia Ann Clay.

AD: Celia?

KS: Celia Ann Clay.

AD: A slave on Cassius Clay's farm?

KS: Uh-huh. She was married when she was 13.

AD: Okay.

KS: She had seven children that did not mature. They died in infancy. Their mother and my aunt and my uncle and that aunt and I know, a bunch of...Seven more were born, the second set, but still to the slave George Noland.

AD: Okay.

KS: And, so my aunt Georgia, who was the baby, she was the fourteenth child and mother was the thirteenth child.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, my aunt Georgia picked up his name. They named her Georgia after her daddy. She didn't like that but they did.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then when mother got married to J. Lynn, they moved down here and she cried all the way from Elm Street which is about a street over.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: Cried all the way down the street. And my cousin, Lucille was with her, and she was embarrassed because my mother kept crying and people kept saying, well, congratulations. You know, the young married lady and wondering how it is. And the more they would say that, everytime she would meet somebody, she just boo-hoo'ed, just boo-hoo'ed. So, finally, my cousin said she's a fool. Said I don't know what wrong with her.

AD: Okay.

KS: But, anyway, she moved down here, two streets over.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And they...

AD: She was upset with the move?

KS: Yeah.

AD: She wasn't upset with being married?

KS: No, no. Just the...leaving home.

AD: Okay.

KS: And just like she was living far, far away the way she was crying.

AD: Okay.

KS: And so they lived together 65 years. ___ my father died. He died in 1952.

AD: Nineteen fifty-two.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. What did...what did he do when he came back and...out of the Army?

KS: Well, he became...He was a chauffeur for some of the well-known ______ like the Burlins, uh, _______ Hanler, Mr. M___, and then, before he got those jobs, they had...he helped to build the ordinance. Well, you know, they used manual labor out there to make the igloos.

AD: Okay.

KS: Then, he did the chauffeuring. So, when he died, he died in Mr. M_____'s car. He had congestive heart failure and died.

AD: In, uh, in her car?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay.

KS: He was waiting on her. She went to a cotillion club meeting and he was waiting for her in the car. You know, to chauffeur her back home.

AD: Okay.

KS: But, he...While, he was in ______, he finished school. While he was there, he did drive with the ______ and he was his chauffeur. ______ because they all had to work.

AD: Okay. And that's what he did?

KS: Uh-huh. 'Cause he's the only one who could drive a car. I don't...You know, he drove car long before a lot black people in this town had cars. Then, he'd get...He also was an insurance agent for Mammoth Life.

AD: Mammoth?

KS: Life Insurance Company.

AD: M-A-M-M-O-U-T-H?

KS: M-A-M-M-O-T-H. Mammoth.

AD: Mammoth. Okay. Life insurance company.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Is that a black insurance company?

KS: Yeah.

AD: Out of where?

KS: Lexington was their home, you know, was headquarters.

AD: Okay. And he was...he was their representative here?

KS: Yeah. He did. Uh-huh.

AD: Uh-huh.

KS: So, he did kind of work like that, 'cause he really wasn't strong enough to do a whole lot of, you know, heavy...He was a little tiny man, too. In fact, I outgrew him, you know, little _____ physically, but I couldn't get in his clothes. Although, we all...As teenagers, we always liked to wear those white shirts, you know, over the blue jeans. (Laughter) and he would take my shirt off.

AD: Um, did you feel, when you were coming up, did you feel priviledged?

KS: Yes. I was middle class. Black middle class.

AD: Alright. Were most of your friends?

KS: Yes. In the same circle.

AD: In the same circle? And is that what this area was?

KS: Yeah. It was...Yeah, totally black.

AD: Totally black?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Was it kind of middle class black neighborhood?

KS: Well, it was mixed. It was mixed.

AD: Okay.

KS: We had some people that were on...They didn't have welfare then. They had, what was it, commodities or something like that. But...

AD: With the coupons.

KS: Yeah. Uh-huh. But, they weren't what we would call ____ dependent _____.

AD: Yeah. Okay.

KS: They didn't have that.

AD: Okay. Where did you go to elementary school?

KS: At Richmond High School.

AD: Okay. Was it consolidated at that time?

KS: Yeah. It was from K through 12.

AD: Okay. Did you finish there?

KS: Yeah.

AD: What year did you graduate?

KS: In 1947.

AD: Okay. Do you go to the reunions that they have?

KS: Yeah. I'm right in the middle of it.

AD: Are you?

KS: Uh-huh. We usually have...This is the host group here.

AD: Okay.

KS: The people here.

AD: Okay. Why did you...Why did the organization start? Why did the alumni group start?

KS: Uh, ____and Ms. Marian Curry got together and decided that we should do something. We had been having individual class reunions and so we just decided that in 1983, that we would do the whole school. So, we began every three years to have it through the whole school, but you have to be an alumnus. Now, you couldn't just go and drop out and . . .

AD: And come back to the...the reunion.

KS: Yes.

AD: Okay.

KS: You can come back as a guest of a alumnus but you couldn't come back as a full member.

AD: Okay. Oh, alright. When you went to school, was it actually called the Richmond Colored School?

KS: No, Richmond High. Richmond High School.

AD: Richmond High School? Okay. But it was all black?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Alright. When you finished Richmond High School, where did you go?

KS: Knoxville College.

AD: Uh, is that a church school, Knoxville College.

KS: Uh-huh. Presbyterian.

AD: Are you Presbyterian?

KS: No.

AD: Oh.

KS: I'm Baptist. They tried to get me but I'm....

AD: Did you...Did you really say that?

KS: Yes.

AD: Okay. You went four years at Knoxville College?

KS: Yes.

AD: Do you remember what...what year you got your...?

KS: Fifty-three.

AD: Fifty-three?

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Was it a bachelor of art or...?

KS: Yeah. It was a bachelor of arts.

AD: In what?

KS: In History and French and...

AD: Really?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then education.

AD: And then,...Okay. Alright. And then after...That was what year now did you say?

KS: Fifty-three.

AD: Fifty-three. And what did you do after that?

KS: Well, I couldn't find a job.

AD: Of course.

KS: We history people can't find jobs.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. I know.

KS: And I substituted in a little one room school in Garrett County for a year while the lady was on maternity leave.

AD: Okay.

KS: Then, I went to Louisville and I taught a year in the school for the blind. And then, I enlisted in the United States Army, and stayed there for three years.

AD: Okay.

KS: Went to France. Taught French culture and language.

AD: What...Do you remember those years? What years can you give me?

KS: They were 19-, hmm, let me see...1954 to 1957.

AD: That you were in the Army?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: And much of that time you were in France?

KS: Yes.

AD: Okay.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Alright. Were you teaching just Army personnel or were you teaching...?

KS: Army personnel but my real job was medical requisitioner. We taught that class on Saturdays.

AD: Okay.

KS: But during the week, I was a medical requisitioner, which meant that I ordered all of the things that all hospitals had need of in Central Europe.

AD: Oh, okay.

KS: So, that's what...I was not the only one, but that was my group's mission.

AD: You stayed for three years?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Did you obtain much rank while you were in the Army?

KS: Well, I got to be a sergeant.

AD: Okay.

KS: I couldn't go in this long term. I mean as....If I'd gone to the OS school, but I didn't want to. My main thing was they said go to France, I said yeah.

AD: Okay.

KS: Free ride.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, I mean, I just wanted to try what...and go see all these things that I had been studying and talking about to know and reading about.

AD: Yeah.

KS: So...But doing that, really during that time, that I was doing all these different little things, I think I was fighting against teaching.

AD: Okay.

KS: And that's...

AD: That's _____. Okay.

KS: So, I was just enough in all these different things.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: Then, when I came back home and I piddled around with things until about 1959. Two years, I just said forget it. I'm not going to do anything. I just had it with the world and I was just so glad to get back home, but this is kind of like getting my batteries recharged. And my mother, of course, she was a widow by this time, she didn't push me to do anything until one night, I went out to serve a party, and Dean Ambrose, you don't know him, but he was at this party. And the lady, who was hosting the party, after...before he left, she called me from the kitchen and she introduced me to him, and he encouraged me to go to Eastern. So, finally, about 1960, I decided then, the fall of 1960, that I laid around and messed around long enough, and I decided to go back to school.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, I got my master's degree at Eastern.

AD: Master's degree in Eastern at what?

KS: In Education with the emphasis in History.

AD: Okay.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. And when you finished, what...when did you finish that?

KS: In '62.

AD: Sixty-two?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: And what happened after that.

KS: Well, then, I went to Maryland.

AD: Okay. What's in Maryland?

KS: On the eastern shore. I didn't know why I was going either when I left. But I got a job.

AD: Okay.

KS: I'm again moaning and groaning, sent out letters, and interviews and you know, and finally, a friend of mine said, well, in the back of the NEA journal, there's this teacher's, um, um . . .What is the organization that will find you a job? A job search thing for teachers. And so, I wrote to them and sent them my credentials and they found me the job.

AD: So, Maryland Eastern Shore. Is that a college or high school?

KS: It's a high school.

AD: So, how long did you teach high school in Maryland?

KS: Five years.

AD: Did you? Okay. What was that experience like?

KS: Lovely.

AD: Okay.

KS: Because first, I was in the all black school in junior high school and then the...the law came down that they had to desegregate.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: So, they were given a choice and I chose to go St. Michael's, which was an all white school.

AD: Okay.

KS: I had good experiences there. I had a dumb principal, but I had good experiences because my children's parents were right with me all the way.

AD: Okay.

KS: And I had the type of parents who were college graduates who worked in Washington and who grew up _______.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And the kids of that ___ were college track kids, so....

AD: And you stayed there for five years?

KS: Yeah. Wouldn't I have come back, but I tried to get my mother to come with me but she would not... You know, it was just like trying to pull a tree up by it's roots.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And so I thought...I got a chance...Another friend of mine...I was in summer school in College Park and she wrote me and said I have a job for you back home in Kentucky if you want to come.

AD: Okay.

KS: I was really torn up. I cried all during summer school.

AD: Where were you going to summer school?

KS: At College Park, Maryland University.

AD: Alright.

KS: Because I was torn between wanting...I had all these plans for the children for the next year, but yet I knew that I would more than selfish if I didn't come back with my mother, alone, and by this time, she had glaucoma and she wasn't seeing very well. That she was blind when she died. So, but anyway, I came on back and taught at Simpsonville, Kentucky at the school for the gifted that was sponsored by U.K.

AD: Okay.

KS: Kentucky could have been number one in that field, but jealousy and ______.

AD: What year was that that you came back to teach at that . . .?

KS: I taught there from '67 to '69 until I, you know, came back here. Then, Dean Lewis called me and said I'll make you...

AD: Okay, Dean Lewis for our...for our memory is...was the dean of college of...?

KS: Of C.U.C.

AD: Okay.

KS: Central University College.

AD: Oh, back up...I don't...Okay. C.U.C. was...?

KS: It had...It was the holding company, as we called it, for all undergraduate people.

AD: Okay. Central University College.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: And the dean's name was . . .?

KS: Lewis.

AD: Lewis?

KS: Uh-huh. Clyde. Clyde Lewis. You see, he was in the history department. He was my teacher when I was going to E.K.U. that summer. He knew I wanted...He knew I wanted to come home and then every summer, when I did come home to Maryland, I would always call him, you know?

AD: Okay.

KS: And I kept in touch with him. He kept in touch with me. So, that summer while I was at Simpsonville, he called my mother and wanted to know when I was coming home. Was I coming home that weekend, because I came home every other weekend? And so, when I got home, she said Dean Lewis had called you. Call him right away. He wants to talk to you. So, he had this opening.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Okay.

KS: So, I was the first black female that they hired.

AD: At...um, at E.K.U.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: In that college?

KS: I was the first black female.

AD: Period?

KS: Period. I was the first black female to finish at the...There was no undergraduates. No black undergraduates. I was the only one. The experiences I had in the past were hilarious.

AD: Tell me about them.

KS: In Dean Lewis' class, I always sit on the front seat, because he mumbles, and when he would turn his back, you would say, what did he say? Okay.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, I sat on the front row. And they all sit on the window sills and sit everywhere but wouldn't sit next to me.

AD: Okay. I understand that.

KS: I was up there for one thing.

AD: Okay. Okay.

KS: In the end, you know, then they were saying to me, What's he going to have on the test? Do you want to come study with me? Come on, I'll take you over here to the grill. We can study in the library. You know, I couldn't get rid of them.

AD: Okay. Okay. Cause you were making the A's.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Alright.

KS: While they were having class three times a week, I was having it five because I would go over there. Dean Lewis'...You know, I wouldn't have bugged taking care of myself and taking care of business. So, I would go to him and say, well, I don't understand this. Tell me this again.

AD: Okay. Okay.

KS: And he had patience and he'd sit down and work with me. So, he knew, you know, that I was serious about what I was doing.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Okay. Alright. So, the only black...The first black master's...?

KS: Hmm-Mmm. In other words, I was on campus alone there just when there were black people, except the janitors and people who worked there.

AD: Okay. Okay. So, and not only that, now, when you came back to teach, in '69 . . .

KS: There was...There was Mr. Wade. They had hired him.

AD: James Wade.

KS: James.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then me.

AD: And then you. As black...You two...The two of you were the only two black faculty?

KS: Uh-huh. But I was the first black female.

AD: Okay. Okay. Let me ask you this. When you came back to teach, what courses did you teach?

KS: I taught everything. We had an interdisciplinary approach to the study of man, culture, and civilization.

AD: Okay.

KS: Which we used all the social science philosophies and ideologies.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, even though I was in history, most of it was on history majors, but we made this...We worked together and did this interdisciplinary thing with a geography, a little bit of geography, a little bit of economics, a little bit of anthropology, a little bit of history, and a little bit...You know, just...It was just like a bit tossed salad and we worked it together.

AD: Was that...Was that the, uh,...Is that Social Science 142 or...?

KS: Yeah, 142, 247, 246, and 248.

AD: Right. Okay.

KS: And we all had to teach them all. We all had to know them all. We all...They would rotate us.

AD: Okay. Alright. So you taught those courses?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Alright. Did you ever get to teach anything you love, like French?

KS: Nuh-huh.

AD: Or just straight history?

KS: Nuh-huh.

AD: Okay. Alright. Who was the chairman of that department when you came back to work to teach?

KS: Ken Tenaeo.

AD: Okay.

KS: Then, Ann Stabbins.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then Ken...And then Ken...There's Ken Tenaeo, Ken Nelson, and then Ann Stabbins, and then, Ken Nelson.

AD: Nelson _____. Okay. Alright. How was your...How was your experience working at this place where you _____?

KS: Well, I knew...I knew . . .Well, see I was hometown, so they didn't have to worry about me having housing. They didn't have to worry about my social life and who I date, because I was already really established here.

AD: Okay.

KS: I knew...I knew most of those people when I got there.

AD: Okay.

KS: And I just...I didn't pay no attention to them. We just worked together.

AD: Okay.

KS: It wasn't no...you know. I didn't feel strange or anything. They didn't do anything. We were one big family. We still are. If I need something, they'll come to me right now.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Okay. Okay. I think...Let me see... Ann Stabbins, is she about to retire?

KS: I hope. Oh.

(Tape recorder turned off.) (Tape recorder turned on.)

AD: Okay. Have you... Have you been informed that they are going to try to merge the social science and the history department?

KS: Yes. Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. What is your feeling about that?

KS: It should've been done a long time ago. One thing it did give me a chance to come back home by having a separate thing, but...

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: Um, I think they needed to merge it.

AD: Okay.

KS: My department's getting older and they're not going to replace us as we retire. And so, at first, we started out with 27 people in...when...

AD: On the faculty in social science?

KS: We carried all the freshman and I had five sections, and sometimes I'd have fifty in each.

AD: Okay. Okay.

KS: Then, they began to pawn this out because anthropology was jealous and sociology was jealous.

AD: ___________.

KS: Yeah, yeah, and all, and so then, they said, let's...Let's try to get the kids to go who we registered, you know, to try to channel them, so so many of them would go into all of these different other subjects.

AD: In the original plan, the only requirement for those categories in social science, weren't social science classes. That's why you had so many students and why you had that... I think you had five...There are still five courses if I'm not mistaken.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: One forty-two.

KS: Two twenty-six.

AD/KS: Two forty-seven and 248.

AD: And there's a 280.

KS: Yeah. Uh-huh.

AD: Uh-huh. Okay. So, that was the original plan.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Now, it is, of course, you can take American History and you can take . . .

KS: Yeah. You can...Yeah.

AD: European History or social science . . .

KS: And then our geography ____. See, when we had been teaching that whole time a little thing together, you see.

AD: And they could satisfy social science requirements with your . . .your part?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Oh, okay. Alright. But, all are not...Then, you're saying that the social science department did not replace any as you retire. I think the history department is older too.

KS: Yeah.

AD: As a matter of fact, I think I'm the baby faculty member, if you can image that.

KS: Well, there for a while, there were only about five faculty members in . . .you know, and they didn't have hardly any students and that was the reason why we had to give up some of our students.

AD: ____.

KS: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

AD: Because you said you had all the freshman.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: They would naturally just be put in the social science class?

KS: Yeah. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Now, earlier, you said there were people who were members of your social science who came over to history and, uh...uh, Bill Ellis was one.

KS: Yeah.

AD: Okay. Did others...Did others make that transition?

KS: No wholly, but they did teach some history courses like Mick Lewis, he taught Middle Eastern History.

AD: Okay.

KS: He would teach a class. And J.W. James Webb, J.W. taught medieval history. He taught a couple of classes.

AD: Okay.

KS: Right now, he is involved in the honor students. He's the _____ the honor students.

AD: Oh, okay. Okay.

KS: But, uh,...

AD: Okay.

KS: Then, Ray Lewis taught in there ______ some anthropology courses.

AD: Okay.

KS: Hmm. I think that's about all that, you know, dared to, even at that time to break away a little bit, but Bill just went completely to the history department.

AD: Let me ask you a question. Have you...Have you also heard of the push that's on to bring more black faculty to Eastern?

KS: Yes. That's been going on ever since I've been there. The push.

AD: A push is on now.

KS: Yeah. Well, that's been...They've been pushing for 20-some years. Even after I got there. 'Cause when I got there, as I grew, you know stayed there longer, I think that at one time, there was 15 blacks on the faculty.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then all of a sudden...But they didn't have their...Some of them never did get their tenure.

AD: Right. Right. When did you get yours? Do you remember when you got your tenure?

KS: Seventy-five. I think it was '75.

AD: Okay. Did you have a hard time?

KS: No. I went over there to U.K. and took those same dumb subjects. (Laughter).

AD: Nobody gave you a hard time? Nobody from the department? Okay.

KS: Nuh-huh.

AD: Okay.

KS: We went on Saturdays and on nights. You know, between meets and all that, you know.

AD: Okay.

KS: But, we got out and I got my tenure.

AD: And what...Did you...Did promotion come with tenure?

KS: Uh, yeah. Uh-huh.

AD: Okay.

KS: But, then, that's the way we got...we all got kind of...The men stepped forward but the women stayed behind. That's the reason I got angry with it...

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: Because it seemed like the women were not encouraged to write.

AD: Oh, to publish articles and books...

KS: Uh-huh. And go speak.

AD: Research...

KS: And, you know, give papers and things like that. The men had all kinds of golden opportunities.

AD: Okay.

KS: Not that I was jealous. I always got the _______ for the social science department's sake, you know, as a representative. I was ______.

AD: Okay.

KS: I did get to go to Colorado Springs before I retired to African and world affairs.

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1 BEGINNING OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2

KS:.... Council stagman to do some workshops in the summer for high school teachers to try to teach them how to teach this interdisciplinary approach to . . .

AD: Okay.

KS: World history, you know.

AD: Okay.

KS: And that...that was a lot of fun doing that.

AD: Okay.

KS: We brought about ten high school...You know from the different...from the areas around here. Uh, teachers to the campus to try to show them how we did things.

AD: Okay. Hmm-Mmm. Are you in a sorority?

KS: Yes. Uh-huh.

AD: Which?

KS: Zeta Phi Beta.

AD: Okay. Alright. That...That used to be the sorority of choice in North Carolina when I was growing up and all my aunts were Zeta's.

KS: Zeta's, uh-huh. Well, I was the sponsor for these up here.

AD: Okay. At E.K.U.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Are you still their, um...?

KS: No, I need to get back with them.

AD: Okay.

KS: 'Cause I hear that the others have gotten in trouble, the Alpha's and the AKA's and I don't want my kids to get into trouble.

AD: Okay. You became a Zeta at Knoxville?

KS: Yes. Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Alright. Did you...Did your mom belong to any of the social clubs?

KS: Oh, yes. She belonged to the church clubs and then she belonged to a card club and then she belonged to a so-called art club.

AD: Is that the Women's Art Club?

KS: Yes.

AD: Okay. Okay.

KS: And she went to the State Federation of Colored Women's Clubs.

AD:Yes.

KS: Yeah.

AD: Did she . . Was she a member of that?

KS: Yeah. I was too.

AD: Was she an officer or...?

KS: No. We were just members. I was an off-, uh, a local...A local officer and I was, you know, represented the local.

AD: Okay.

KS: We got...They taught us how to do all of this. We've been in these clubs, following them around for years.

AD: Okay. Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And so, we were club oriented . . .

AD: Okay.

KS: You know, on how to, you know, ______ in a meeting and all.

AD: So, you were an officer in the local women's art club.

KS: Yeah. I was secretary.

AD: Secretary.

KS: Then, for eight years, I was president of the local NAACP.

AD: Okay. What were those eight years? Give me some dates?

KS: Holy mackeral! Let's see...Of 19-...How'd I get mixed up in this? From, was it 19-...Well, I started out with the Women's League of Voters.

AD: Okay.

KS: Just as soon as they got into town in 1969. And then, in 1981, they reorganized the NAACP here.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then...No, it was 1979, they reorganized. And 1981, was when I became president.

AD: Okay. And you were president for how long?

KS: For eight years.

AD: Eight years.

KS: And I would've still been in that, but like I said, I had a heart attack and had to quit.

AD: Oh, I didn't realize you had a heart attack.

KS: I had a heart attack right in the middle of final exams in 1985.

AD: Okay. Okay. But, you got alright and you came back to work?

KS: Yeah. And then, I had to have a pacemaker because I had another heart attack. So they put in a pacemaker and then, I came back to work. I always managed to do this during the summer.

AD: Had the pacemaker put in and had the...?

KS: Heart attacks and everything. The heart attack came in May. I didn't finish my...I didn't get to give my kids the final exams, but the final exams were made up and everything was set up for them.

AD: Okay. Okay. Why does He always manage to do in the summer?

KS: I don't...I'd never lost a day of school.

AD: In all the years, you . . .?

KS: In all the years, I was there. I never stayed home for anything...I stayed out for anything.

AD: Okay.

KS: Because I would mess my kids up if I did.

AD: You mean in terms of what they were teaching ___________.

KS: Yeah. Well, yeah. . . 'Cause, see, we had to usually just turn the class out.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, the kids lost that date, and so anyway...But in the end, still they had to give me a whole year's credit.

AD: Why?

KS: Because I hadn't missed any days. They had to...Those...

AD: So, you built up all that time?

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. So, when you...Okay, when you asked to retire, then, how many actual years did you work?

KS: Twenty-one. Twenty plus the one.

AD: Twenty plus the one that they had to give you.

KS: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. So, twenty-one years.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Alright. Are you on...Did you ever consider going going ERO?

KS: No. I went disability, so I didn't...

AD: Okay.

KS: Have treatment of disability.

AD: Okay. Alright.

KS: I didn't think they'd want me in the classroom and have another heart attack. But, you know, I don't think they wanted anything.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Um, when you talked a little while ago about, you know, when your dad came home, he enclosed this part for your momma's shop and everything like that, did he build the house originally?

KS: No, the house was given to him by his Aunt Pauline.

AD: Okay.

KS: Well, it was given to his...my grandfather by my Aunt Pauline. I never knew these people, now.

AD: Okay. Your grandfather, your's daddy's father.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: The house was given to him

KS: By his Aunt Pauline.

AD: By his Aunt Pauline?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. How did she get it?

KS: We need to...That's the one thing I need to do while I'm retired is to get all of this together. While I got time, I just grabbed all the pictures I could get.

AD: Okay.

KS: That's my mother when she was five, and that's her diploma when she finished high school.

AD: Okay. Where did she finish high school?

KS: Richmond High School.

AD: Okay.

KS: In 1942.

AD: Uh-huh. Is that yours?

KS: Yes. That's...No, that's my mother Eastern Star. That's my Excellence in Teaching.

AD: Okay. She got an Eastern Star, which means he was a mason.

KS: Yeah. I'm an Eastern Star, too.

AD: You're an Eastern Star?

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. How long have you been an Eastern Star?

KS: Oh, about 30-some years now.

AD: Okay.

KS: I came in there in '62.

AD: Okay. Did they have the kind of social gatherings that they sometimes used to have? I don't know if they still do?

KS: Yeah, they still do. Uh-huh.

AD: Have the big dances and so forth?

KS: No, that's the Elks.

AD: Okay.

KS: The Elks had the dances.

AD: Okay.

KS: The Eastern Stars are more...more bible oriented. The women...

AD: Oh, okay.

KS: Group and they only _______.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, it's...it's a different atmosphere. A different feeling here.

AD: Do you...Do the women get . . .Wings or pins?

KS: I've a wing and a pin.

AD: Okay. Okay. Okay. So, president of the NAACP...

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Eastern Star for 30-some years...Alright.

KS: Who's Who in Black America.

AD: When were you in Who's Who in Black America?

KS: I'm still in it.

AD: Okay. Do you know the first time you were?

KS: Let me see...Let me get my book.

AD: Okay.

KS: Because my cousins had _____ in it. So, _______ my name. In 1980.

AD: Nineteen . . .

KS: Eighty.

AD: Eighty.

KS: To '81.

AD: Okay. Where are you, right here?

KS: Uh, I don't know. I think I had this...

AD: ____.

KS: What is this? _______ Oh, there was something that happened at...

AD: There was something else...

KS: _______________ Stone. Esther Simmons, and then Robert...He taught up there too.

AD: He's Robert Mitchellson or Robert Downey?

KS: No, Robert Mitchell.

AD: Okay.

KS: We taught together. Now, he's the Methodist minister in Columbus, Ohio.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, there's my bio right there.

AD: Talbert County, Maryland was the school system, from '64 to '68.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Paris, Kentucky city school.

KS: Yeah. I was a substitute there when somebody was out on maternity leave. That's where Dorothy...See, Dorothy finished high school out here too. Dorothy Hunt.

AD: Dorothy?

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Dorothy Walker Hunt.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Oh, this is marvelous. The first black female full-time faculty, Eastern Kentucky U., Richmond, 1969. Governor's Commendation for Drug Abuse Education Program.

KS: Oh, yes.

AD: Oh, okay. Centennial Award for Excellence in Education, E.K.U., 1974. That's your 12 year. Governor's Commendation for Service to Kentucky, 1978.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: I don't know, what...what is WAC-ACO?

KS: Oh, ____________.

AD: Oh, okay.

KS: Okay.

AD: Nineteen fifty-five to '58. Oh, alright. You proud of that. Who's Who Among Black Americans, 1980-1981.

KS: So, it's come out every year. I haven't bought the book every year, but this is the last...Just before Christmas, just before the end of the first semester, they sent a note, you know, to see if there was any corrections, deletions or whatever to go in this.

AD: Okay.

KS: And so, I had put retired. That was the only change they really had to put in there.

AD: Okay. Okay. So, what other organizations you lead? (Laughter)

KS: Well, I'm not leading any right now.

AD: Okay.

KS: I do antiques. I got into that and so, I'm going to do a show in Bardstown this weekend.

AD: You, you mentioned that. What . .. Um, all the things that you...you collect, you've found, you've found, and then you sell them.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Such as?

KS: Well, I sold a lady in Hawaii I don't know how much black stuff. You know, items and things.

AD: Okay.

KS: And I did black items, and I do, of course, lamps, but I don't sell my lamps. I keep my lamps.

AD: Those are beautiful lamps.

KS: Some of those lamps came down. They were all in the house. You know, they came all the way down.

AD: Okay.

KS: And I sell Fiesta and...

AD: What is that?

KS: That is that brightly colored stuff.

AD: Orange. Orange, red...Okay. Okay. The...The little pitcher.

KS: Hmm-Mmm. And there's...There's an _____ that comes in green...greens, you know different colors.

AD: Oh, okay.

KS: And uh, I don't know...

AD: Those are old. Pitcher and those glasses.

KS: Uh-huh. That's called Cosmos, all of it.

AD: It's called...?

KS: Cosmos.

AD: Cosmos. Okay. Was that your mom's stuff?

KS: Uh-huh. And then I started ______. I found the butter dish and these other ____ pieces.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. Okay. Okay. When...What is this building that used to sit right there? What was it?

KS: It was a restaurant.

AD: Black-owned?

KS: Uh-huh. And then, we had urban renewal. Oh my, you should have been here when we had urban renewal.

AD: Okay. Talk to me about urban renewal. Okay.

KS: That street over there.

AD: Okay.

KS: That was called B Street and it was an all-black street like this one.

AD: Okay.

KS: Well, they decided they were going to take it. And, then we started fighting.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, they did take it and redid it, and put all those high rise, senior citizen high rise and all of those units down there.

AD: Oh.

KS: Then, they got to my street. The bulldozer came and I was right there at the end of the street saying no way, you ain't coming in here.

AD: That's Hill Street.

KS: With me, there's another alternate plan that you can do. And, you know, you're not going to take it. I know my mother wasn't going to move and I wasn't going to either.

AD: Okay. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: So, they finally decided then to just take out some of the houses that were really bad and some of the white people came in and bought the lots, 'cause they're little bitty lots and put them together and they were big enough to hold a house or whatever.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And this place across the street was a restaurant that this man next door ran it, and then he decided that he...Well, he sold it to a white woman who thought she was going to cash in on the urban renewal, and they didn't. They left her sitting right there.

AD: Oh, my!

KS: They didn't buy anything of hers. 'Cause she bought it, you know.

AD: From him.

KS: Yeah. Speculating and that...

AD: What's his name? Who's this?

KS: Blythe. Larkin Blythe.

AD: Blythe. So, she bought it from Larkin Blythe thinking that she's going to make a profit.

KS: Yeah.

AD: It's been sitting right there since when?

KS: Well, then, it burnt down. See, we had a black...a little black boy, Stanley Miller, who had a barber shop in part of it.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then this part up here, Garfield Smith had a record store in it, you know, and they were doing fairly well. And then, all of a sudden, it caught on fire and so, that's where it's been sitting there ever since. I guess that was five years ago that I've been fighting.

AD: Since the fire?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: But, she owned it by that?

KS: Oh, yeah. She owned it. Yeah.

AD: Okay. Okay. So, they had a fire. So, she owns it now?

KS: Oh, yeah. She can't get rid of it because it's...You know, it's...Who wants it? How many thousands and millions of dollars would she have to go into rehab it, you know?

AD: Okay. All then, at least all she's got is a burned out building...

KS: Uh-huh. And then she...And then, that lot there in front.

AD: Okay.

KS: Belongs to this building too. And the parish wanted it, but under the price she put on it.

AD: Um, tell us what church you're talking about.

KS: The Baptist church.

AD: The First...Is that First Baptist?

KS: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Uh, this is black church?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Isn't there another First Baptist out there?

KS: Yeah, the white First Baptist.

AD: How did...How did you make the distinction? People just know which one you're talking about.

KS: Well, they say on Main Street or on Francis Street.

AD: So, Francis is the one you're talking about the black church. Where are you a member of?

KS: I'm over here at that one.

AD: Uh, First Baptist. Okay. How long have you been there?

KS: Since I was 11 years old.

AD: Has the church been sitting right there?

KS: Hon, that church is older than I am. That church...That church goes back to 18-. Shoot, I've got a whole...I think...If I can remember, it was 1859, 1860, somewhere, and it started out as a wooden church.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then, it finally...Madison Campbell, Madison Campbell was the...He organized this church. Okay?

AD: Okay. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: Then, the Reverend Broaddus. William H. or William Howard Broaddus came and they started building and then they built this red _____ that we got now.

AD: Okay. Okay. Was, um, after Broaddus, who came after Broaddus?

KS: After Broaddus came Titus Bennette.

AD: Okay. Did he stay here a long, long time?

KS: Yeah. He was originally from near here.

AD: From here?

KS: Yeah. Right in Madison County near Farristown.

AD: Titus Bennette? Does he have a daughter in Lexington named Delma Peoples?

KS: Yeah. Delma. Hmm-Mmm. Delma.

AD: Delma Bennette Peoples?

KS: Right.

AD: And his widow is still here?

KS: Yeah.

AD: Alright.

KS: Ms. Stewart. Hmm-Mmm. Gonzella.

AD: Gonzella Stewart?

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Alright. After he died . . .?

KS: Then, Reverend Williams.

AD: Is that who we have now?

KS: Albert Williams.

AD: Okay.

KS: Then, the Reverend Goodloe.

AD: Goodloe. I've heard that name, but I can't...

KS: I guess your ________ (Laughter). And then, this boy, Robert.

AD: Robert?

KS: Black.

AD: Robert Black is the pastor now. Okay. And you've been there ever since you joined the church?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay.

KS: I was under Reverend Bennette. The three...I was...He had an older daughter here. Delma has another daught-, uh, sister.

AD: Okay.

KS: Parthenia. And she and I graduated together. Parthenia and I.

AD: From Richmond?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Parthenia?

KS: Parthenia.

AD: Okay.

KS: That's a good old name.

AD: Yes, yes, it is. How well did you know...I was going to ask you where they got Kara from? K-A-R-A.

KS: I don't know where my...___________ (Laughter). ________ name them in those days. _________.

AD: Okay.

KS: _____________. I don't know. I was the only Kara for...until Kara Kennedy came along. AD: Kara Kennedy. Is that the Kennedy family?

KS: Yeah. President's...I guess she would be his niece.

AD: Okay.

KS: She was one of the other boy's children.

AD: But you were the only Kara until then?

KS: Yeah. Because nobody had that name.

AD: Right. Right. Oh, I started to ask you...Oh, no, you told me because I wanted to find out, was the house built in stages or was the house like this, except for...

KS: No, we kept adding. You know, how they do.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: 'Cause it was kind of straight through. And then, they put that ell and then they went up...There was a room upstairs. Then, they decided that I was too...When I got to be a teenager, well, 11 or 12, you know, at that age, they lifted this roof and put a room overtop of this one. See, that's my room back there. And then we added a bathroom, and then I added a bathroom upstairs when I came home from Maryland.

AD: Okay.

KS: That was the porch and mother got tired of looking at it like this, so we built that all in. (Laughter).

AD: Okay. Okay. Okay. Do you drive?

KS: Yes, uh-huh.

AD: Where...Where...Where is your car?

KS: There in that...Under that part right there.

AD: Right there?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Oh, okay. Oh, alright. Because when we came in, we passed it and realized that numbers were going up, so we had to go back around and when we came back...

KS: Well, see, where as you come...When you come right off that hill, that there, that Telford Hall . . .

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: You go right straight down that hill and you can see my house. I can see anybody that's coming up and down the hill, and anybody going up and down Main Street and anybody going up or down Reardon Street.

AD: What . . .What was your opinion about your shift? Okay, they closed Richmond School . . .

KS: Yeah.

AD: High School. They closed it after your graduated.

KS: Oh, yeah.

AD: _____________, I guess. And then they made the junior high school. Am I right on this?

KS: Yes. Uh-huh.

AD: Okay.

KS: Because I wasn't here, you know, during all this period. That's right.

AD: And what was your feeling about when it became, you know, a Telford Community Center?

KS: I don't know, but we still had a room in there...The reunion still has....

AD: Oh, okay. Okay. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: That's where we hold our reunions.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, the little gym, not the big gym, but the little gym, they made into kind of an auditorium...

AD: Okay.

KS: And so we have to ______, so we just...Everytime we go back there all the time even though we never...We never go...We never did go up there. I don't think I ever went up there for anything, even after I got gone, you know.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: We never did go out to Madison Central.

AD: Okay. Okay. Who was the principal when you were graduating?

KS: Well, let me see...Ziggy Merritt.

AD: Merritt? Alright.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Did you play sports?

KS: No. I played in the band.

AD: What was your instrument?

KS: Sax. Alto saxophone.

AD: No kidding.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Can you still play the alto saxophone?

KS: Nuh-uh. _____________ (Laughter).

AD: Did they...Did they have marching band?

KS: Yes. We was the only band in Richmond that, you know, when the boys went off to war . . .

AD: Yes.

KS: You know, when they would, you know, go into the camp...We'd go out to the train station. They had a train station then.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then early in the morning, honey, the Red Cross has a coffee and donuts, and we tried our best to eat up all the coffee and donuts. (Laughter) We ate more coffee than those of the kids that were going home or going to the camps.

AD: Okay.

KS: And we would play, honey...

AD: Oh, okay.

KS: And when my...

AD: Alto saxophone?

KS: Yeah.

AD: Oh, okay. (Laughter). Then, were you . . .Were you in the...in the...doing anything musical at Knoxville, when you were college.

KS: Well, I was in the band there.

AD: Were you?

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Did they have a marching band there?

KS: So, we had...We had uniforms eventually out here.

AD: Okay. Alright. Do you play other instruments?

KS: No. Nuh-uh. Mother taught me. Well, I took piano. She made me take piano.

AD: Could she play?

KS: Nuh-uh, but she always wanted me to do everything she thought I was supposed to be playing. We played tennis. We played piano. We played in the band.

AD: And...and...______.

KS: And do the whole nine yards. Well, we didn't have that because we could . . .We would . . .We would go to Berea with that. We did a lot of that with clogging.

AD: Okay.

KS: And square dancing.

AD: Okay.

KS: But, we...You know, but we knew how to dance, you know.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. Oh, okay. Oh. Well, let's see, I can't think of anything right now. What I would like to do is ask you if you...if you feel, uh, if you have any more information, you would like to share with me, give me a call and I'll come on back over again.

KS: Okay. I'm trying that. At this point, this man gave me all his stuff and I'm trying my best to organize it.

AD: What is it?

KS: And I'm...It's mostly church stuff.

AD: You're supposed to organize it for...

KS: No, it's mine.

AD: Oh.

KS: He gave it to me.

AD: Who did?

KS: Well, some man...Some black man who had an auction. . . we had a state fair in Georgetown and they had all of these papers and...I guess Reverend Miller. The man's dead. I know all of these old ministers. And so this to me was a, you know, a gold mine.

AD: They knew you were interested in this kind of thing?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay.

KS: Ms. Emma Taylor, Higgins Avenue, Paris. Well, I knew Ms. Taylor because when I was over there teaching. There's...But it came out of her family.

AD: Was she a teacher in Paris?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Ms. Emma Taylor.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. This is something from 1954. Is that the place that got marked.

KS: Yeah.

AD: Is that the way they used to do it? They put an 8 cent stamp on this package.

KS: Uh-huh. And it's just a lot of... Then, they evidently moved. Because there's one and they lived and that's where they died. ____.

AD: Okay. No, this is...This is a 2 cent stamp on this package.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: _____ of the 80th annual _____ general association of colored Baptist in Kentucky.

KS: Right.

AD: Oh, it was 1948?

KS: Right. Now there's a lot of this stuff in here. And, here's the one from the National Baptist Convention in 1927.

AD: May I see this? Is this...anybody from the Ballew here?

KS: Yes, yes, yes. That's the Reverend William High Ballew, hon. He taught in... He had.... a church in...And D.E. King Church in Louisville. Dr. King's brother.

AD: Oh, okay.

KS: They were all...We were all in there together. Yessirre. This definitely...I've got to look through to figure out how to get this to . . .

AD: Take...Take...Take your time. ____.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: This is the National Baptist Convention of September 1927.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Oh, my.

KS: Yeah. I have to take my time with this.

AD: Uh-huh. But I like this one. This one says everything. The General Assoication of Colored Baptist in Kentucky, 1948.

KS: We used to go to all of that stuff, honey. Sunday School Conventions, BTUs. We'd have to go. You know, we wouldn't have...We didn't have to go but we did because that's the way we were taught __________.

AD: He is a most handsome man.

KS: Yeah. Uh-huh. He was really ______ when he was older.

AD: Okay.

KS: Now, my family is the Ballew, Broaddus, Simpson, and Noland.

AD: Okay. You've got links to all of those family lines in Madison County.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Ballew, Broaddus...

KS: Broaddus, Simpson, and Noland.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, ______.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And we got that...We have that reunion in September. They come from California. They come from Kansas. They come from everywhere.

AD: Okay. Has anybody put together this whole...?

KS: That's what we are trying to do now to...

AD: Okay.

KS: To do that. I've got all these projects going. I don't know. (Laughter).

AD: What do you...They've given it to you because you can restore it.

KS: Well, they give it to me because I'm the only nitwit that would do it. (Laughter).

AD: No ma'am. They.... You're the . . .You're the historian in the family and they want to take advantage of your skills and interpretate any...any data.

KS: You know, I always ____ with you and my aunt Georgia.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Okay.

KS: Why she's _____ and I said tell me that story...Is that all?

AD: No.

KS: And I said tell me that story again about Grandfather George and Celia Ann. Well, she was not born when this happened. She was still...Her mother was pregnant with her. My mother was three years old.

AD: Okay.

KS: And mother said don't tell her that. Well, _______ in the car and I said tell me again. Tell me again.

AD: About something that happened?

KS: She says he was a good looking black man. The women all ran after him.

AD: Okay.

KS: And they had a carnival out here across the railroad tracks on Irvine Street where the beer. . . The big old beer place is. The beer warehouse is.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And said somebody on the street came up there and my grandmother was washing on the board.

AD: Okay.

KS: And said George is down at the circus, going around on the Flying Dutchman. And I said, what is the Flying Dutchman, and she said the merry-go-round, and I go, oh....With this woman. So, my grandmother takes her hands out of the...Dries them off.

AD: Okay.

KS: You see, they had these long dresses on.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: Puts on a clean apron. Takes the mother and washes her, spit washes her.

AD: Okay.

KS: And mother, she was going to the circus. (Laughter) By the hand, and she walked down the street. Well, you could walk right to it, you know. He was just playing...Going around here on this merry-go-round with this other woman. Whipped out this hachet from under her apron, and said, there you go, you son of a bitch. Whoo. (Laughter). And so he fell off that horse. She said by the time they came back home, he was sitting at home waiting, just like he hadn't...No, it wasn't him.

AD: Oooh.

KS: _____________ so what happened.

AD: Did he ever try...He never tried that again?

KS: No. But you know what, he died and somebody poisoned him. Some of those women.

AD: Really. Do they know or is that family...the way the family sees it?

KS: Well, that's what...I again, Aunt Georgia said that's what...My mother said it was. She said she can remember...

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2 BEGINNING OF TAPE 2, SIDE 1.

KS: Yeah.

AD: And she was sitting on a stool...

KS: At three years old.

AD: Okay.

KS: She was fanning. Trying to keep the flies off of him. And then she would go and sneak off and go down to see her grandmother who lived at the end of the street and they would catch her and make her come back and sit back on the stool.

AD: Okay.

KS: She said she remembers that very...Of course, she was so . . .She just said she wanted to go down to see Grandma Elizabeth and they just would not let her go, and they would stay there and watch her because they went back to the washing and ironing.

AD: Let's see . . .What time...Was he...That was when he...After he got poisoned?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. So, they knew he was dying?

KS: Yeah. Uh-huh.

AD: Oh.

KS: Well...

AD: Okay.

KS: Well, that's the tale they out, now.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: But, now this is a picture of my grandmother. I keep these.

AD: Do you...Do you have nieces or nephews or cousins?

KS: Well, I got two cousins across the street over there. Kelly Dean.

AD: Uh-huh. Okay.

KS: That's my grandmother and her widow's weeds.

AD: I wonder what the date is.

KS: I don't know. This is the second husband. Uncle Nate, they called him.

AD: Your grandmother's second husband?

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

KS: The _____ was 11 or 12 years old and they got married.

AD: Is that ______?

KS: We always _________. Look at mother. She was mad because she said that was not her. And the man said yes, it is. And _________.

AD: Beautiful picture. She didn't like it.

KS: She didn't like it. I told them I was _____(Laughter)___________.

AD: Uh-huh. Hmm-Mmm. _________.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: This was her mother?

KS: Uh-huh. And this is the oldest sister, uh, Sissy.

AD: This is your mother's sister?

KS: Yeah. And this is my . . .

AD: Sissy?

KS: Aunt Sis. Uh-huh.

AD: Was her real name C-I-S-S-Y?

KS: No, what was Aunt Sis's...What was her name? We called her Aunt Sis and, boy, I forget her name.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And this is Uncle Dennis.

AD: Who is this?

KS: That's the brother. And we had an Aunt Katie, which is that Simmons boy's grandmother.

AD: Oh, this one is fly. I like that hat.

KS: Yeah. He did to. He thought he was something else.

AD: Oh, yeah.

KS: That's my uncle William _______. We were all crazy about him.

AD: Who...Who is living now?

KS: Just me and Kelly, and her cousin.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. But I mean, this generation.

KS: No. They're all dead.

AD: All dead.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: So, it's either up to you and Kelly then to write it up.

KS: Hmm-Mmm. Yes, it is. We're gonna do something. _______. But they...But, all of a sudden, I decided I wanted all this stuff and wanted to keep all this stuff.

AD: Did you...You went through all the trunks and boxes and stuff?

KS: Well, when my ______ out there on Elm Street, I've still got pictures, hon, that I have not gotten around to even...

AD: What's on Elm Street?

KS: Well, it was her house. And I sold the house. Well, it was their property. We sold it.

AD: Okay. So, you sold the one on Elm Street?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: But you still got stuff out there?

KS: No. We tried our best to stuff everything in this house and Kelly's house and...

AD: So, you boxed it up but you haven't gone through everything.

KS: Well, we didn't go through all the pictures.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: Well,.... I had some of them laying under there and I had some upstairs laying under the bed . . .

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: It's just overwhelming. 'Cause there's no where to hang them.

AD: Right. Right. Okay. I've enjoyed talking to you this afternoon. Learned a lot.

KS: I don't know. (Laughter).

AD: About Richmond and black people. Oh, when you...You don't remember any racial problems, racial strife here in Richmond?

KS: Well, when all of that was going on, I was in Maryland.

AD: That's right. In the '60s.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Uh-huh.

KS: So, 'cause when I came home one summer, they had had a march up here that the white drug stores and things which were all gone . . .

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And when I got back to Maryland, they had burned down Salzbury, Maryland and I thought what is going on.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Okay.

KS: And, but we...I never was, you know, really...

AD: Was there any place that you wanted to go, you couldn't...when you were growing up?

KS: Nuh-uh.

AD: You know, somebody said you can't come in here because of the color of your skin.

KS: Nuh-uh. We could always go in. We just couldn't like...We would go in all the dress stores and try on things. I don't think we...The first time I ever came really up against that was when I joined the Army and went to Anniston, Alabama. Uh, but I was never...

AD: Never harrassed or anything.

KS: Nuh-uh. Uh-huh. Well, I never saw a white and black signs, you know. I never saw those either.

AD: Until you got down here?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Okay. They weren't on...You didn't see them on posts. You saw them downtown Anniston or other areas in Alabama?

KS: Yeah. Well. . . Well, like we would get to the...We flew down because I was the only one who had flown before, and I had two other white girls from Louisville who didn't understand what was going on either. (Laughter). I can see them now. It's the craziest thing, seeing Margaret and _____. Make them understand where ____________ kept saying I can't do that. Well, why? I said I can't go with you. You know, like we get to the train station and go on to eat. So, we compromised. I would sit in the doorway and they would come and sit in the doorway and there we were, you know.

AD: Okay. Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And then, we got to...Before we even got off the plane, that was the first thing. They had the limousine...I can see them on their knees, in the back seat looking out to see where I was. AD: Okay.

KS: And I had to take this black cab.

AD: Okay. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: Which I thought was hilarious.

AD: Okay.

KS: And they said you didn't get mad. And I said, why should I get mad. They're the ones wasting the money.

AD: Yeah, they were. Because they had to pay for that cab like they had to pay for the limousine...

KS: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

AD: And the limousine could have brought all three of you cheaper.

KS: That was...It was hilarious to me.

AD: Okay.

KS: Then, we got to the train station and we had to eat. But when we got on the train, we ate together.

AD: Okay.

KS: Then, we got to Anniston. And we went down to the camp. _______ anything. We went on through basic training. Then, we had to go back to town and get our dress pumps.

AD: Okay.

KS: There we were again. Well, we went in on...on the...on the . . the Army brought us in on a bus. They had a bus, but then they turned us loose and it was a day for us to get our shoes and go around town. And, when I was ready to come back, I had to get a black cab. In fact, I had to go around to the back door to go into the shoe store.

AD: To get to...To spend your money to get the pumps.

KS: And I'm in uniform.

AD: You were in uniform?

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Alright.

KS: But, again, see, it didn't bother me because they...it's...it's not me.

AD: Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. (Laughter).

KS: That's all. I seem like I must have been in a whole lot of situations. I've always been the only black or been the first black or...but it never has...

AD: Never bothered you.

KS: It never bothered me.

AD: When you were teaching at E.K.U, in the early days, of course, all your social science classes, most of the students, if not all of them were white, did you notice an increase in black students?

KS: Yeah, but I didn't get them.

AD: I don't understand that.

KS: I don't either. I know it wasn't that the...It wasn't that they did anything to prevent them from taking it, but I would have two generation and three generations of white kids.

AD: In your social science class?

KS: Yeah. They were all cousins and uncles and they tell you take Ms. Stone. When you get there take...

AD: Okay.

KS: So, they were...They were...They were pushing that and I guess they got there. They signed up and they...

AD: Right. But not the black.

KS: Nuh-uh.

AD: I don't know.

KS: I mean, how many do you have in yours?

AD: I teach Afro-American...Well, I've got...I teach American History Survey in all three sections and I've got four.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: I've got two in one, one in the second, and one in the third, black students.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Again, white students come and, not so much generation, because I haven't been there that long but they tell the next group.

KS: Next group, uh-huh.

AD: In my African-American History class, this is the first year I've been there that I have more black students than white students.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: And one of them explained to me a couple of years why black students didn't want to take the course . . .

KS: Because there was white man teaching it.

AD: Before I came.

KS: Yeah.

AD: But then he...uh, yeah...Burt.

KS: Burt Luman is gone.

AD: Yeah. Alright.

KS: Uh-huh. Because I have taught the ____ version of the _____.

AD: Okay. Okay.

KS: But...

AD: Uh-huh. But...Since I've been there and even...once they found out that I was black...What's the name? Ronald Spears told me one time. He said that if he had faint-hearted, he would have dropped out that first day because I walked in and I said we are not here to experience blackness.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: This ain't no black experience course.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: This is a history course.

KS: Pure academic. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: You know, so I, uh,...So, I've always lost a few.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: But this is the first semester, I have more black ones than white ones. I usually have more white ones than black.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: So, okay. I'm here. Now, what they are trying to do is get it adopted as a general education course and I said...I told whoever asked me ____ or whoever does this, I said fine. However, they must realize this is a 300 level course and I'm not changing anything.

KS: That's right.

AD: It's still not a black experience course.

KS: Well, that's...I thought maybe black kids wouldn't take me because they knew that I was...One thing, you better not miss my class.

AD: And you were going to give any special grades.

KS: And that was passed around to everybody. If you get Mrs. Stone's class, she's going to get you if you miss her class.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: I felt really...I felt...That was another reason why I made every effort to be there because I wouldn't let them miss.

AD: Yeah. Right. Right.

KS: And then, I don't...If I have...If you have a paper for me, bring it early but don't you bring it late because I will tear it up right in front of you.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: And I had all the football boys. Lord, have mercy. And I said, well, I asked Ken. I said why did you bring me all these big hulking boys. He said because you're the only one who will make them stay in class and make them study and don't let them, you know, fool around.

AD: See what they...I image some of them do is they can tell me anything because I don't really know when the games are. I don't keep that . . .

KS: Yeah, right. Well, I told them, I said now, don't...I said now I don't have your schedule and I'm not going to take your schedule. I have to do well to keep them up with ___________. And there's something, if you are going to have a game and a test is up on the same day, you better get to me to have this test early, because I do not play around and I get through giving a test, set here on the table, and I grade that test and give it back. You are not going to take the same test. If you have to make it, honey, I'm going to give you the hardest test you ever heard of. And, it finally dawned on them. Don't miss the test.

AD: That was true. Right. Okay.

KS: Do it early but don't miss her test.

AD: Okay. Okay. Okay.

KS: But I did have this black boy from Louisville who put me through...I don't know what was wrong with that child.

AD: He probably came in with an attitude because he was from Louisville, right?

KS: Yeah. And I was black.

AD: Yeah. Okay.

KS: Well, I was in the basement of the University Building, Room 4. That's where I taught.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: 'Cause after they had the heart attack, they didn't want me to go up all that...

AD: Right.

KS: So, anyway, the class was at.... At 9:15...

AD: Okay.

KS: And sometimes, it'd be quarter to 10 and he'd come strolling in and he wouldn't stop over here. He is over here and I am standing here lecturing. He would not stop over there and just sit down somewhere. No. He would have to go all the way across in front of me, go on to the far side, take off his coat, and we were just sitting there. I'd be sitting there staring at him, and the kids would turn around and make nasty looks.

AD: Okay.

KS: And he did that constantly. And I started documenting every time he was late. Well, we actually say that in the syllabus because I had never dreamed of anybody doing that.

AD: Uh-huh. Okay.

KS: So, then, that's...Then, when he came up from his final grade, he had done this so many times, it added up to more than...plus his normal absences . . .

AD: Okay.

KS: He ended up with 8, well 9, _____ I told him he can't take the _____.

AD: Yeah. Okay. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: ______ Not maybe, but I will give you an F. I wrote that in his book. And so, I gave him the F and, honey, he turned everywhere ______ and everywhere.

AD: Okay. Because it wasn't on the syllabus. You just said...

KS: Yeah.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then, I think, one day, he took over the class, and we stood there and I stood there politely for the longest time, and the other kids began to...

AD: Talking.

KS: And I finally said, I'm...How did I say it? That's very nice but we must go on. Well, he took that as an insult.

AD: Good. Okay.

KS: But, I acted as if what he said was written down and it wasn't.

AD: You ____.

KS: ____ didn't write a thing.

AD: Is he gone?

KS: Gone. I guess. I don't know. But...So, but, I went through...We went through all of those channels all the way to Thunderburk and Thunderburk went and looked at the syllabus and he said, you got the F, you got the F.

AD: Okay. Okay. Hmm-Mmm. Okay. And somebody was talking about changing the grading system. They want to add A- and A+.

KS: Oh, why?

AD: Well,.... You know, what's going to happen when you get to F. An F is an F.

KS: Well, to me it is an F, but ____.

AD: You know, so you can give a kid a D-, right?

KS: Yeah.

AD: And what are going to do, give somebody an F+. I mean, come on.

KS: Yeah. That's splitting hairs.

AD: Yeah, it is. It is.

KS: Well see, when I first came and I was...'Cause I was an advisor for about eight years and I decided...It'd got to me...Well, it got to the point where I had no advising or help students. I stopped it and I wasn't _____. So, I turned my...Since it was a volunteer thing, I just gave that up.

AD: Okay.

KS: ___________.

AD: Okay. Hmm-Mmm.

KS: But anyway, they had this undecided and I thought undecided about what?

AD: What they're major is going to be.

KS: And I thought I don't have this privilege when I went to college.

AD: No, you didn't. No, you didn't. And some of them remained undecided for a long, long time

KS: Long time.

AD: Yes, they did.

KS: Or they're switching and changing majors all the time.

AD: I'm an advisor now. I became an advisor last August.

KS: Bless your heart.

AD: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've...I've...I've got 76 advisees.

KS: Yeah, well, I got up to120. So, last spring I thought, forget this. I couldn't talk to my students about class work while...

AD: Advising, getting registering...

KS: Yeah. And then them coming in and changing or switching . .. Oh, Lord.

AD: And dropping classes.

KS: Yeah. I guess some of them were enlightened.

AD: What ____ after classes?

KS: They would...They would drop a class in a minute.

AD: At the first sign that they're going to have to do some work.

KS: Work. They... And I tried my best to get them to drop mine. Some of them would sit in there through the midterm and they didn't even belong and I said...

AD: Okay.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Now, those, you can't get them to drop. The ones that really need to drop, you can't get them to drop.

KS: Yeah. To drop.

AD: Maybe that was . . .

KS: And I will say won't you go over to the...To the registration office and drop this class. Drop my class. Just go over there and drop it. (Laughter) You know.

AD: They just look at you, right?

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. And I don't know... I don't know if you can say that anymore. So, what I generally do is, you know, I call them to the side and I say, you know, you have a midterm deficiency.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: And I personally don't see how you're going to pass this course.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: And I leave it at that time. Now, anybody with any sense will use that.

KS: But, no, they going to hang in there. They think you...I don't know what they think. I don't know.

AD: But, anyway, that's what I'm doing.

KS: They'll still...

AD: Teaching the survey, between the Surveys and the Afro-American History class, and next semester, I'll be doing the recent U.S. History, the Survey, and 448.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: _________.

KS: Yeah.

AD: Has always had that senior research.

KS: Yeah.

AD: So, I'm going to do one of those next semester.

KS: Of course, he's about ready to go off...

AD: He's about ready to go. He's thinking seriously about going to ERO first. Walter Oldham is supposed to ERO come . . .uh. . .

KS: In the fall.

AD: For the fall semester.

KS: Well, let's see...Jan Hilbert. There's a bunch of them that's going...Well, Jan's already finished her ERO. So, I don't know what she's doing.

AD: Well, I don't...I don't think...uh. . .

KS: She's still too young to pick up...She's...She does...She couldn't pick up her teacher's retirement if she can't pick up her social science, uh, social...

AD: Security.

KS: Security, because she's still too young.

AD: Okay. Bob... Bob can pick up his. Her husband _________. How old before you can pick up your social security?

KS: Sixty-two.

AD: Oh, okay. Okay. Oh, okay.

KS: 'Cause when Jan, she . . .She's in the economics department. She came...She started out as a graduate assistant and then eased on in and she's been there forever, but she's still not old enough to get the social security. She's put in thirty some years teaching but...

AD: Okay.

KS: So, that's the reason why she did the ERO and when that's over, she's in there five years, and said now she's still not quite...

AD: Not quite . . .Doesn't have...quite have age. She took her ERO too soon.

KS: Well, she . . .maybe she re-...Well, she didn't retire. And I found out too, she didn't get her letter either until when I got mine.

AD: Oh. Okay.

KS: And...for the dinner. And it didn't...What I found out about that was, that actually she was not considered retired as long as you are doing the ERO.

AD: Oh, okay. Okay. So, okay. You came out...That's right, because we had a retirement party for Bill Burge and George Robinson.

KS: Yeah.

AD: And that's right. That's after ERO. Because they were on ERO when I got there.

KS: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. So, she just...That's pretty much...She's just now getting to get her...Although she...formally retired _____.

AD: Okay. Are you content?

KS: What?

AD: Are you content?

KS: Yeah.

AD: With retirement?

KS: Oh, yes. Oh, Lord, I turned that thing. I turned that off just like a drug. _____.

AD: Did you? Okay.

KS: And they keep saying, why don't you come over here for coffee. I don't want no coffee. (Laughter).

AD: You know, ______loud in here. And you have to talk to everybody.

KS: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Right. Then, they force me to come over there to think about... Well, twice a year, they have this big feast.

AD: Okay.

KS: And, of course, I have to make a cake or do something, and then, uh-oh, it's almost time for the day to end. (Laughter). Oh, Lord, have mercy. Well, anyway, Ken called me this morning. He was so apologetic about whatever happened and I kind of...When I went on...When I retired...Well, I went on sick leave at spring break of '89 and didn't come back. Period.

AD: Okay.

KS: And then, we were trying to get my disability worked out and finally when those papers came through, it was June, and I had my letter written, but I couldn't turn it in until I saw teacher's retirement was going to do. So, after I got, you know, since I had...You know, they had said that after they had my disability and retirement...

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: Then, I turned...by that time, you had to see the...They already had the...the ______.

AD: Okay. Okay.

KS: So, then, I don't know why when they picked up . . .__________ they did call, and that's why they were apologetic because they should've caught it in 1990.

AD: Okay.

KS: But then they had me still listed in the catalogue as an active faculty member.

AD: I image because...

KS: Because they had not reprinted the catalogue.

AD: I think it comes out this year. I think it's a new catalogue year.

KS: I think they said something about they didn't have enough money to print the catalogues. They're supposed to come out every two years instead of three.

AD: Oh, I didn't know that.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Alright. Well, can you think of anything else we need to talk about right now?

KS: No, I think we just about...

AD: Talk about your family, community, your life.

KS: This is your life. (Laughter).

AD: Yeah.

KS: I took off...I've had some of these...I said I'll check all of these commendations and things and some way just put them on with just a Velcro.

AD: Okay.

KS: Do like the Reverend Goodloe with the political button.

AD: Yes. Yes. Okay.

KS: _____ and I don't need any more citations. I don't another tray or nothing.

AD: No. You sure have enough of them.

KS: I've decided . . .And I've decided when he called...Then, he said, well you have two alternatives. He said you can go to the dinner. I said I won't go to the dinner. I don't want no tray. He said we can have the dean of the college and he and some of my closest congregation and that we can go out to lunch. And I said let's do that. And now . . .

AD: Now, why ______?

KS: Because I like ______. I like him.

AD: But go to the lunch where?

KS: Oh, that's up to me. I'm thinking about it.

AD: There aren't a whole lot of places.

KS: I would go search Down Under.

AD: Okay.

KS: The Down Under.

AD: Is that, uh, you go downstairs?

KS: Yeah. Under the bank. Uh-huh.

AD: I think I've been there one time. It's nice. It's kind of tight.

KS: It's kind of dark too. (Laughter). Yeah, I can't even remember. ____.

AD: I don't find it...Did you ever go to, um...________ been there. I've been invited to the minority luncheon.

KS: No.

AD: They could not have just started that in 1989.

KS: With the _____ Sandra probably.

AD: No, this is Art Harvey.

KS: Oh, Art.

AD: Yeah, Art Harvey. Well, when you get the invitation, it says, you know, Art Harvey, and of course, your name is on there somewhere.

KS: No, I don't...Yeah. But, no, I didn't go to no...They never did invite me for nothing like that. We used to try to get together because there was a lot of 1:00us that . . .I'd say there was 15 of at one time...

AD: Uh-huh.

KS: And we just started our own because they would never give us the list of all the black people.

AD: Okay.

KS: So, why can't you give us the list of the black faculty members, because we are so spread out.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. Yeah. I did a think with the Political Science Association at a meeting. I did a presentation and on the panel with me was a black male, Thompson. I think his name was. I did not even know was at E.K.U. in Anthropology.

KS: I know what you mean. Uh-huh.

AD: I had no idea.

KS: We have lived with...In connection with Berea College, we have this...What ever happened to that organization...The Black Faculties.

AD: The, uh, Kentucky Association of Blacks in Higher Education?

KS: Yes.

AD: The meeting in April is on campus. It is on E.K.U.'s campus this year.

KS: Okay. What...

AD: Let me see if I can get this...

KS: 'Cause I used to be a wheeler dealer in there.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

KS: I used to have the whole school in...

AD: Okay.

KS: They know me quite well.

AD: Kentucky Association of Blacks in Higher Ed. Okay, and that's...I'm looking at Thursday, the 15th of April. Now, it might be the 15th and 16th or the 14th and 15th. I don't know which way it goes. But, I just got the 15th because I'm...I'm going to hold one of...My session is 1:30 on the 15th.

KS: And that's on what?

AD: Huh?

KS: Tuesday is the 13th. Wednesday is the 14th. Thursday.

AD: Yeah. It would be Thursday, the 15th. That's one day. I don't know. Like I said...

KS: Okay. What time?

AD: I'm holding...I'm supposed to be chairing a session at 1:30 on cultural diversity or whatever that means.

KS: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Do you know a Melba or Amelba? I forgot her last name.

KS: Nuh-uh.

AD: Melba or Amelba is the one who call me on it.

KS: Where is she from?

AD: AT E.K.U.

KS: No.

AD: She's the representative on campus. She's helping to organize it.

KS: Organize it. _____. She's not from U of L, not of U.K., not from . . .

AD: She . . .She's here.

KS: Oh.

AD: She...She does something with E.K.U.

KS: I don't know. See, that's what I'm saying.

AD: Melba or Amelba. I said I was going to call her in a week or so. Extension 6319.

KS: What department?

AD: I don't know. I forgot.

KS: Okay.

AD: But, at any rate, that association meeting is this year at E.K.U.

KS: Well, I don't _______ back in it.

AD: Okay.

KS: Well, I was...Yeah, 'cause we have to set it up.

AD: Were you in it when Parker was president from UK?

KS: Yup.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Okay. And that's all the information I've got it. Just what I've got on this book. But I tell you what, if.... If they send me anything, I'll call you and see if you got anything. And if they didn't send you anything, I'll send you the stuff.

KS: Okay. 'Cause the probably don't even know me now.

AD: Okay. How do you know they. . . We make that mistake?

KS: Yeah. We don't keep . . .

AD: We don't keep up. So, what I'll do is when... If I get any information, I'll send information. Send info. to you. At home, right?

KS: Yeah. Or you could just...

AD: Mailing address?

KS: Yeah. Three fifteen.

AD: Uh-huh.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Three fifteen Hill.

KS: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. I can do that.

KS: I'm glad you brought you that up, too. You see, I would never...They would have been having something and.... I would like to keep in touch with things.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Particularly that kind of organization.

KS: Yeah.

AD: Uh-huh. Okay. I do appreciate your time that you've taken with me. Thank you for it. Alright?

KS: Don't make yourself scarce now.

AD: Thank you.