Interview with Jave Warren

The following is an unrehearsed taped interview with Mr. Jave Warren, long time resident of Richmond and Madison County. The interview was conducted by A.G. Dunston, Assistant Professor of History at Eastern Kentucky University for the Oral History Center of EKU. This interview was conducted at the Richmond Senior Center, 1215 West Main Street in Richmond, Kentucky on the 9th of March, 1992.

AD: I’m here with Mr. . . . May . . . May I close the door? May I close the door?

JW: Yeah. Yes, indeed.

AD: I’m here with Mr. Jave Warren. Your first name is Jave.

JW: Jave. J-A-V-E.

AD: V-E.

JW: That’s right.

AD: Okay. Your middle name, Mr. Warren?

JW: Don’t have a middle name.

AD: Okay. Jave Warren. W-A-R-R-E-N.

JW: Right.

AD: Okay. When . . . When were you born?

JW: Nineteen-oh-three, June the 20th.

AD: June, the 20th, 1903. Where? Here? Were you born in Richmond?

JW: In Madison County, down here in the western point of Madison County.

AD: What’s the name of the place?

JW: Uh, Well, it was between Kurtsville and Silver Creek.

AD: Okay.

JW: Yeah. Yeah.

AD: Between Hert . . . Hertzville and Silver Creek?

JW: Kurtsville and . . .

AD: Kirkville?

JW: Kirksville . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: And Silver Creek.

AD: Okay. In 1903?

JW: Ninteen oh three.

AD: Uh, were you an only child?

JW: No, there was six of us. Uh, but, there’s four of us . . . That’s my sister sitting beside me there.

AD: Okay.

JW: On the right hand side of me.

AD: Alright.

JW: That’s my oldest sister. I’ve got my youngest full sister, she died in the church on the 18th day of October in ‘70.

AD: What was her name?

JW: Amy Jennings.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: And what is this sister’s name?

JW: Florida Noland.

AD: Florida Noland?

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Do you remember the names of your other sisters and brothers?

JW: My brother, he spent 32 years in the service. He was a year and 17 days older than me.

AD: Okay.

JW: His birthday is on the third day of June and, uh, . . .

AD: What was his name?

JW: Mack Henry. Mack Henry Warren.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Is he still living?

JW: No. He died the 30th day of September in, uh, ‘67.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. So, out of . . . you said, how many . . . How many brothers and sisters did you have? How many brothers and sisters were there?

JW: I had one full brother. I’ve got a half brother. He’s still living in Fayette County.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I’ve got this sister and two half sisters in Dayton.

AD: In Dayton, Ohio?

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Um, do you remember much about your parents?

JW: My parents?

AD: Uh-huh. What did your daddy do?

JW: Farm. All his life until he . . . he got . . . He was handicapped for about almost six years.

AD: Okay.

JW: He had a stroke and he just . . . he was handicapped. He couldn’t do anything.

AD: What was his name, sir?

JW: William Warren.

AD: Okay. And your mother?

JW: My mother was named Mollie Clark, her maiden name, until she married my daddy in 1901.

AD: Okay. Mollie Clark?

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Was she down from, uh, . . . the _____.

JW: Usually about . . . Just about 12 miles west of here.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Was she a housewife? Did she take care of the children or did she work outside the house?

JW: She worked out some but not too much.

AD: Okay.

JW: And she took care of most of the children. Sometimes, she’d get out and do housework for people getting older ______ and she was raised by Judge Million. Judge Million.

AD: Oh.

JW: And his wife was named Fannie.

AD: Okay.

JW: They was pretty wealthy people.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And my . . . my mother’s mother died when she was small and she . . . Ms. Fannie, uh, they had a ______ for her to go to school.

AD: Okay.

JW: I mean to wash dishes and then she went to school from there.

AD: Okay. Okay. Uh, where did you go to school? Where did you go to elementary school?

JW: Down at uh, I went to Grapevine. That’s down here on Tate’s. I went to Silver Creek.

AD: Okay.

JW: And my teacher . . . First teacher was, uh, Haynes. His name was Haynes.

AD: Okay.

JW: Jarmon Haynes. That’s his name.

AD: Okay.

JW: And he used to stay at our house. We lived about 12 miles from town and he lived in town, and he’d come down and stay. We wasn’t but a, oh, about a mile from the little country schoolhouse. It wasn’t much bigger than this room.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I went to school with him when I was five . . . Five . . .Started when I was five years old.

AD: Okay. And how long did you stay in school with him down there?

JW: Well, he didn’t stay there. They hired different teachers.

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, we moved. My daddy moved over here at Newby and I went to Grapevine over there.

AD: Okay. Do you remember the year you moved to Newby?

JW: It was in 19 and 13, I think. I was just 10 years old.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I had the typhoid fever that year. When I was ten years old, and my mother had it the next year, and she’d like to have died with it.

AD: Okay.

JW: So, then, my daddy worked on a farm, raised tobacco, corn, hogs, and things on shares, you see?

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, later we, us boys, my brother left home when he was . . . in 1920.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And my daddy then lighthened up on the farming. He just took what he could keep.

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, I left . . . I think it was ‘22 or ‘21.

AD: Okay.

JW: I went to Richmond, Indiana and stayed three years.

AD: Okay.

JW: And, so then, I was engaged to a girl and she took the typhoid fever and died.

AD: Oh.

JW: And then, I got the _____ and the wife and we married the first day of June in 1925 and she’s still living.

AD: Is she still living?

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Where . . . Where . . . Where . . . Where is she from? Where is she from?

JW: Down on Tate’s Creek.

AD: Is she?

JW: Her and me went to the same school.

AD: Okay.

JW: Over a year or something like that.

AD: Okay. What is her name?

JW: Ivory Warren.

AD: What . . . ?

JW: Ivory S. Warren.

AD: What’s the . . . What’s the maiden name?

JW: Smith.

AD: Ivory . . .

JW: Smith.

AD: Ivory Smith Warren.

JW: Right. Right. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Uh, do you all have any children?

JW: Yeah.

AD: Okay.

JW: I’ve got a boy. He’s retired from the Army Depot.

AD: Okay.

JW: He was transferred from this ____ over here to Burton, South Carolina.

AD: Okay. Hmm-Mmm.

JW: Hmm-Mmm. And he retired the year before last _____, uh, in June. The 21st day of June, the year before last, and I happen to be down there when he retired.

AD: Okay.

JW: My birthday was one day and he retired the next.

AD: The next day. What’s his name?

JW: William J.

AD: William J.?

JW: William J. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. Alright.

JW: And, uh, he’s been married three times. Him and his last wife disagreed. She’s _____ woman in the payroll office down there at the Marine base.

AD: Oh, okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm. But she was raised over here at Georgetown.

AD: Okay. How many grandchildren do you got?

JW: Twenty.

AD: My, my. Okay.

JW: But, Lord, I’ve got about six or seven that are fifth generation under me. Great, great, great, great.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I . . . _____ doesn’t run out on them.

AD: Uh-huh. I know what you mean? Is this your only son? Is this your only child?

JW: Uh, no.

AD: Okay.

JW: My daughter, oldest daughter retired from the VA Hospital over there in Lexington.

AD: What was her name? What’s her name?

JW: Martha Evans.

AD: Evans?

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, the next one was . . . She’s 55. She had the _____ when she was 3 years old.

AD: Okay.

JW: And she had to wear braces and crutches.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: Her name was Mildred Smith Warren.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: She’s a Nero now. She married and got a girl and I believe three grandchildren.

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, the next one is Sarah Cavanaugh. She lives here.

AD: Okay.

JW: Right here in Mobley. She’s been married three times.

AD: Sarah Cavanaugh?

JW: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay.

JW: And, uh, she’s got . . . Let me see how much . . . Sarah had just two children, I believe.

AD: Okay.

JW: Leah and Rachel.

AD: Okay.

JW: Rachel married and she got killed in a car wreck. Then, I don’t . . . I can’t remember just exactly what year because it’s been about ______.

AD: You had the four children.

JW: I had six.

AD: Oh, there are two more.

JW: Oh, no, wait a minute now. Wait. Yeah. I have seven children. I got six girls and one boy.

AD: Okay. Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

JW: Six girls and one boy.

AD: Okay. Now, the boy’s name is . . .

JW: William J.

AD: William J. And then, you have . . .

JW: Now, Martha Evans . . . She’s the first child. She’s the oldest.

AD: Okay. She’s your oldest. Okay.

JW: And then, Mildred Smith Nero was the next.

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, Sarah Cavanaugh was the third one.

AD: Okay.

JW: And Viola Miller is the fourth one.

AD: Okay.

JW: And Daisy . . . Daisy, she lives in Dayton.

AD: Okay.

JW: I was trying to think of her married name. I know her husband but I forget their name.

AD: Okay.

JW: She’s the next one.

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, one we adopted.

AD: Okay.

JW: How many do I got there?

AD: That was . . . Daisy was fifth.

JW: Huh?

AD: Daisy was the fifth name you called.

JW: Then, Lynn.

AD: Lynn?

JW: She’s adopted. We adopted her.

AD: Okay.

JW: My wife used to keep them underprivileged children and she don’t have a hand on this one.

AD: Okay.

JW: And we adopted her. And she was working at the . . . I can’t . . .

AD: Okay. In . . . In Richmond?

JW: Yeah, she’s working here in Richmond at a ______ by Eastern somewhere. I don’t know where.

AD: Is it Lynn Warren? Lynn Warren?

JW: Lynn . . . Dorothy Lynn. Dorothy Lynn.

AD: Dorothy Lynn?

JW: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

JW: And, uh, I was . . . I tried to think of this little restaurant she worked at. Walford Place. You know where you . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: Walford. It’s got another something else to it, but I can’t think.

AD: Okay. I know the name Walford.

JW: Walford. The . . . The Walford. The __ Walford, you know. I don’t know where it is. I don’t . . . I’ve never been in it.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

JW: Yeah.

AD: Okay. What did . . . What did you do? How far did you go in school? Let me ask you that first.

JW: Ninth grade.

AD: Ninth grade?

JW: Yes, ma’am.

AD: Okay.

JW: And after that . . . And when I left home, I was just in the fifth grade.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I worked night school in Richmond, Indiana.

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, after I married, I come back here and the last school I went to night school over here at the center and that’s where I got my diploma at.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Alright.

JW: And I was _____ . . . Oh, have you been back in the Hilcrest there?

AD: No, I haven’t.

JW: You haven’t?

AD: Nuh-uh.

JW: You turn off Second Street and it takes you right there.

AD: Okay.

JW: I had a hundred and . . . A hundred and twenty acres belonged to a woman and she lived in Florida. A white woman.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And her nephew was a lawyer up here . . .

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And I rented it.

AD: Okay.

JW: I kept it 12 years. I had cattle, hogs out there and . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: Tobacco. Not much corn.

AD: Okay.

JW: And soy. Then, I got the place . . . while I was farming, I had two tractors and all the equipment went missing.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: But, I decided to quit farming. I’d done some just new concrete work, too. I also made pretty good on concrete.

AD: Okay.

JW: Finishing concrete.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: They rock and block anything. My house is a rock house.

AD: Is it?

JW: Yeah.

AD: Okay.

JW: ______ I’ve been for 20 years building it, but I’ve got seven bedrooms.

AD: Okay.

JW: And a dining room, kitchen, living . . .

AD: You built . . . You built this? You built this home?

JW: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I’ve laid rock for two or three more houses around here for contracts. I laid rock in, uh, ___ house in Berea.

AD: Okay.

JW: Uh-huh. And, uh . . .

AD: When did you stop working?

JW: Huh?

AD: When did you stop working?

JW: In ‘80.

AD: In 1980?

JW: Eighty was the last crop I raised.

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, I was renting out a boy’s barn.

AD: Okay.

JW: A black boy. And, he’s . . . quit working and he stole the motor from somebody’s boat. And, I was going down through the _____ barn . . .

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And I was going down through the ________. Anyway, he’s dead now. He said, “Jave,” he says, “Come here.” He says, “I’ve got a job for you.” Me and his daddy were the same age. And I said, “You ain’t got no job for me.”

AD: Okay.

JW: And he says,”Yes, I have.” And I said, “What is it?”. And he said, “Dog warden.” I said “Not for love nor money, I wouldn’t want it.” He says come on up ____ and he pursuaded me to put in an application.

AD: Okay.

JW: And so I did. I put in an application and, um, in August ______. I reckon ‘82 in August. And I was coming down the street in my little truck in September. _______ take care of the _____ courthouse lot there. He says, “Jave.” He says, ”I heard your name was called and the judge told me to tell you to be at his office any morning at 9 o’clock.” I said, “What?” I couldn’t think what . . . about me putting in that . . . I done forgot about putting in that. I said, “What in the world they got me for?”

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: I couldn’t think. And he says, “I think your name was called.” Anyway, _____________. And he called me for dog warden and I went up there and saw ____ and, uh, . . . I said “Listen Judge.” I said, “There are places I will not go unless I’m protected.”

AD: Yeah. Okay.

JW: And he said, “Well, that’s easily done.” And Winkler was a sheriff and he called ____ come up there and they swore me in as a deputy sheriff.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I worked four years and four months.

AD: Okay.

JW: I worked . . . I started in ‘80 in September.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I worked ‘81, ‘82, ‘83, and probably ‘84.

AD: Okay.

JW: I never had a minute’s trouble with nobody.

AD: Okay.

JW: And, uh, so, we . . . I run across some pretty rough people, but most of the time, I’d say howdy and good-bye.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

JW: But, now, nobody . . . They told me . . . They says, don’t you go right over the Fork Road. They says there’s bushwhackers and throat cuts and everything up there. I said, you don’t have to get out of Richmond for that. But, you know, I never had a cross word with nobody. One fellow, right over here . . .

AD: Uh-huh.

JW: Who just said that if I shot his dog, he’d shoot me and I sent him words right back. _____ And I just tell him I got better stuff for him than I have for the dog.

AD: Okay.

JW: So, I never had no trouble with his dog.

AD: Didn’t have any trouble. Okay.

JW: And up in the . . . I tell you the truth, um, if money could buy it, I wouldn’t take a thousand dollars for the experience that I had in Madison County.

AD: Okay.

JW: And no one . . . It was just a schooling to me.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: Yeah. And see how people are around. Good people. Of course, I’ve been a Deacon for 50- . . . 56 years.

AD: In . . . In what church?

JW: Predestinarian Baptist. Predestinarian Baptist.

AD: Okay. Where is that located?

JW: It’s right on Elm Street here in Richmond. You know where the First Baptist is?

AD: Yeah.

JW: Well, now, the road . . . From the first bend, ____ goes around here that leads right around to our church.

AD: Okay.

JW: Yeah.

AD: Uh, Predestinarian? Fannie Katherine Taylor?

JW: Huh?

AD: Is that the same church? Do you go to church with Fannie Katherine Taylor?

JW: No. Fannie Katherine?

AD: Yeah.

JW: No, she goes to First Baptist.

AD: I thought she said Predestinarian. What does . . . What does it mean? What is Predestinarian?

JW: Prefixed before the foundation of the word. Prepared before the foundation of the word. That’s the way . . . That’s what we believe.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. It’s . . . It’s Baptist?

JW: Yeah. Yeah.

AD: Predestinarian Baptist.

JW: Elizabeth Predestinarian Baptist Church.

AD: Okay.

JW: My great-grandmother belonged to it. My grandmother belonged. My grandmother did, but I never did see her. And my mother, and my . . . and me was baptized down on Silver Creek behind the old church, and part of my children.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. What . . . What’s the name of the old church? Do you remember the name of the old church?

JW: The same as this one. Elizabeth Predestinarian Baptist.

AD: Okay.

JW: See, we done away, disclaimed the old church, and we lived out here.

AD: Oh.

JW: Uh-huh. The members . . . We couldn’t have nothing in the country.

AD: Okay.

JW: Yeah. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: What do you know . . . What do you know about the small black communities like Peyton . . . Is it Peytontown?

JW: Peytontown.

AD: Peytontown?

JW: Uh-huh.

AD: Were the other . . . uh, there’s . . .

JW: Farristown.

AD: Okay.

JW: Middletown.

AD: Okay.

JW: That’s around Berea.

AD: Middletown?

JW: Yeah. Uh-huh. Middletown’s right . . . Pretty close to Berea.

AD: Okay.

JW: And Farristown is back this way. Then, uh, Bobtown is kind of south of Berea.

AD: Are you . . . Bard?

JW: It’s east of Berea?

AD: Bardstown?

JW: Bobtown.

AD: Bobtown?

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Were these towns named after black families or something? How’d they get their name?

JW: I guess that’s the way they got it. I guess I just image.

AD: Uh-huh.

JW: Back in the olden days.

AD: Okay.

JW: Now, I ____. I went to a white church last Sunday morning and then, I got back to my church and told the preacher up there.

AD: Okay.

JW: And they wanted me to sing. I was supposed to sing in Berea, uh, uh, old songs. They like them old songs.

AD: I do too.

JW: I can’t sing a hymn but I know several old songs.

AD: Oh, yeah. Okay.

JW: And, um, I guess the reason I love church so much was my . . . We lived about four miles from Silver Creek Church.

AD: Okay.

JW: My mother was a pretty good sized woman, but she died at the age of 33, and my . . . She . . .We didn’t have church but once a month then.

AD: Okay.

JW: And she started out walking and I’d go following her, you know.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And I stayed in church every Sunday. When I was in Indiana . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: I connected myself with the Second Baptist Church ______.

AD: Okay. Okay.

JW: White is the pastor now. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Who’s your pastor?

JW: White. In Richmond, Indiana.

AD: Okay.

JW: On North . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: North 8th Street, I believe it is.

AD: Who is your pastor here?

JW: My pastor?

AD: Yeah. Who’s your pastor at this church here?

JW: Uh, McPhearson. He’s a young fellow. Uh, Michael McPhearson.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Alright.

JW: He lives in Lancaster, but he comes over here.

AD: Did you . . . Did you ever remember any racial conflict in Richmond? Any racial conflict?

JW: Yeah.

AD: Okay. Like when?

JW: Let me see . . . Ms. Phelps called me one time. I’d been working down on the river and so, she called me about midnight. She said, “Mr. Warren, I’ve been trying to get you for two or three days.” She said,”We’re have a meeting. We want you to join our club.” I said, “What kind of club?” and she says a racial club.

AD: Okay.

JW: Or something like that. I said, “Now listen”, I said, “Now, I’ll tell you what, I’ve never been barred out of but one place in my life in Richmond.” I said, “I go to any bank and bars.” No money ______ bank. But, I said, “Now, I’m not ready to join. I’m not going to join.”

AD: Okay.

JW: And I didn’t. And they had . . . At one time, they’d like to had a big fight up on First Street, black and white, but some things . . . Some people can operate . . . and I know she’s one that wants everything for herself.

AD: Okay.

JW: ‘Cause I know what she’s about. I believe she’s about two years older than me. I known her since she was a school girl.

AD: Okay.

JW: And so, everybody came, uh, uh, go to every congregation to talk, you know.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

JW: You got to know how to speak and when to speak. Things like that.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: So, I’ve never had no trouble at all with any of these places. I went up . . . Used to smoke cigars.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I went up on First Street, and two women sitting in the back there, and finally, one of them says, “What do you want?” I says, “I’d like to have five King Edward cigars.” “We don’t wait on no blacks.” I says, “Alright. Thank you.” And I walked out and went down the street and got me cigars.

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, then, about . . . I was living on Paris Avenue then, and I guess, it was maybe a month or maybe two months after that, this woman’s husband - one of them was the boy’s mother and one was his wife - they come down to my house. They had a nice truck and wanted to sell some vegetables.

AD: Some what? Vegetables?

JW: Vegetables.

AD: Okay.

JW: Tomatoes . . .

AD: Yeah.

JW: And potatoes . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: And apples and things like that.

AD: Okay.

JW: I said, “Don’t you . . . You run a ____ on First Street? He said, “Yeah, but I’m hardly ever there.” He says, “My wife, and my mother stay there when I’m not there.” I said, “I went in there to buy five King Edward cigars. My money wasn’t good enough to pay for them.” Now, I said, “The quickest way you can get out of in front of my house is too slow.” (Laughter).

AD: Okay.

JW: So, that’s what I say. Anybody that spits in your face . . .

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: You don’t have to get them or nothing like that.

AD: Right.

JW: Let time . . . Time is one of the best things in the world. It’ll roll around.

AD: Yeah.

JW: Well, you can do the same . . .

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1. BEGINNING OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2

JW: . . . pleased with my life. I’ve been a Christian. I was baptized in 1920.

AD: Okay.

JW: In Silver Creek.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay. When you said, you said the lady called you, right? And you were working down on the river, what does that mean? What were you . . . Were your working . . . When you say working down on the river?

JW: Yeah. I was putting up some barn doors. She’s dead now, and her husband. She’s a white lady.

AD: On a farm that’s located on the side of a river or . . . ?

JW: Yeah. Right up on the hill from the river.

AD: Okay.

JW: About a half mile.

AD: Okay. So, that’s where you were working when this lady called. Do you remember who this lady was?

JW: Yeah. That called me?

AD: Yeah. And tried to get you involved.

JW: Clay Phelps’ wife. Clay Phelps lives out on Linden Street now.

AD: Okay.

JW: Right by my daughter’s.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Okay.

JW: His wife’s still . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: But in bad shape.

AD: Okay. When you said . . . Okay, . . . There’s only one place . . . You said, “There’s only one place I’ve been barred out of”. Was that the cigar?

JW: Right there on First Street in Richmond.

AD: Okay. Okay.

JW: Right out here just across from the courthouse.

AD: And that’s the only place you ever . . . anybody ever tried . . .?

JW: That’s the only place.

AD: Okay.

JW: I’ve walked in hotels, motels, and everywhere, and everybody, I think, knows me.

AD: Okay.

JW: When I was dog warden, uh, uh, I went everywhere.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: People’s houses.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: Some of the houses, I had to back out of them. They had dogs and everything, children, _______.

AD: I know.

JW: It’s a shame.

AD: Yes. Hmm-Mmm.

JW: Hmm-Mmm. Baby’s in the bed and the dog’s laying in the bed with the baby’s.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. I know.

JW: Yeah. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Did you ever . . . You were a Mason?

JW: Yes, ma’am. I was raised in ‘51.

AD: Okay. Alright. Uh-huh.

JW: See it? Thirty-second. Do you see it there?

AD: Yes. I do.

JW: Thirty-second degree.

AD: Okay.

JW: And this one was my blue lodge ring.

AD: Hmm. That’s beautiful.

JW: That’s right here in Richmond. Now, this one, . . . This was my membership to Lexington.

AD: Right. Okay.

JW: And they’ve grown up. The princes and ______ I’m going to entertain them Easter Sunday morning.

AD: A 6 o’clock service.

JW: I’d be glad to see you there.

AD: Six o’clock service, Eastern Sunday morning. Where? At . . . At where?

JW: At the Elizabeth Church.

AD: At . . . Here in Richmond?

JW: Yeah. Right here in Richmond.

AD: You going to . . . You going to be singing?

JW: No.

AD: Okay.

JW: I don’t think I will. No.

AD: Okay.

JW: But, I’ll entertain them with a hymn and then we take communion and . . .

AD: Oh, okay.

JW: And then, all the princes who carried 32nd and 33rd degrees, and we’ve got, uh, a few of them here.

AD: Oh, okay.

JW: I’m the oldest one in the lodge.

AD: Are you?

JW: I’ll be 90 the 20th day of this coming June.

AD: Okay. Alright. You seem healthy. How are you feeling?

JW: Pretty good, except just diabetes. I’ve had it for something like . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: Better than 30 years.

AD: Uh, are you . . . Is it diet controlled? Are you on medication?

JW: Yeah.

AD: You have to take medicine?

JW: Yeah. I took pills every morning, about three pills, and then, I shoot myself . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: In the arm. I take 30 units.

AD: Okay. But you’ve been . . . You’ve had diabetes for how long?

JW: Better than 30 years.

AD: Okay. Okay. You’re doing well. May I hold your hand?

JW: Yes, ma’am. Yes, ma’am.

AD: Your hands . . . Your hands feel good.

JW: Yes, ma’am.

AD: You know, you said, usually, it’s the hands?

JW: Yeah.

AD: You know, the hands and feet.

JW: Yeah, right.

AD: Uh-huh.

JW: Now . . .

AD: Your feet okay.

JW: Sometimes my toes get sore. I had an ingrown toenail and I went to my doctor . . .

AD: Right.

JW: And he says, Jave, he says, I’m . . . I won’t work with them, but he said, I’m going to call a man and you can go right over there on Broadway in Lexington.

AD: Okay. Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

JW: I have a colored woman and a white woman. The white woman. . . the one that waited on me, she said, “You got pretty feet.” I’ve never had a corn or a callus in my life . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: On my feet. And I said, “Well”. I says, “They be pretty, but ___ that ingrown toenail just clipped it out.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And it’s gone. I _________ I’m going to have it cut out.

AD: Have to go.

JW: He said you get . . . Try to cut it yourself, but there may be an infection or something.

AD: That’s right. You’re right.

JW: I said, “I don’t do that.”

AD: No, ‘cause if you have diabetes, you don’t need any infection in your feet.

JW: No, no. Any parts of my body, I can scratch myself, and it just looks like it stays sore for so long.

AD: So long. Hmm-Mmm. Slow to heal.

JW: That’s right.

AD: It’s slow to heal.

JW: It’s slow to heal. But, uh . . .

AD: Do you have any hobbies? Mr. Warren, any hobbies? Hobbies?

JW: Hobbies?

AD: Yeah. Yeah. Do you . . . What do you do now that, that, uh, you don’t work?

JW: Well, now, I work.

AD: Do you garden or . . . ?

JW: Yeah. I’ve got a garden up on . . . right across from the courtyard on Lancaster Avenue.

AD: Yeah. Okay.

JW: _____.

AD: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

JW: And I’m going to tend it this year. He promises . . . He told me he’d furnish everything but . . . and give me help, if I want.

AD: Okay.

JW: And, uh, yeah. My boy’s got some cattle. He got a little farm right here on Cobb Road. And I went yesterday and helped him haul some hay.

AD: Oh, okay. You’re still active?

JW: Yeah. I like to do 2-3 hours of work in a day.

AD: Okay.

JW: And . . . But, if I sat around home all day and nod and sleep, at night, there wouldn’t nothing but toss and turn and wake up.

AD: Right. Right. Right.

JW: And sometimes, I’ll just . . . I’ve got a brother down in Lancaster. I drive down there and see him. A half brother.

AD: Okay.

JW: And my daughter’s over in . . . . I may . . . I don’t like to drive in Lexington. Now, I can drive you here to Lexington . . .

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: But going downtown and ______ excites me.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

JW: ______ so many wrecks.

AD: Yeah, I know.

JW: So, I just, uh, soon my folks will be going, I guess, this evening. She’s having a blood transfusion. I mean, they’re putting dye in her blood to check her heart some way or another.

AD: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

JW: Uh-huh.

AD: You do like to keep busy? You like to keep busy?

JW: Yeah. I’m . . . I like to keep busy.

AD: Okay.

JW: I go out hunting. I fish. I paint. When you got a big old house, you got . . . There’s something that always needs to be done to it.

AD: Where . . .Where . . . Where . . . Where is that house located? What street is that you live on?

JW: Francis Street. Right above . . .

AD: Francis?

JW: Francis.

AD: Uh-huh. Okay.

JW: Right above First Baptist.

AD: Okay.

JW: You know where the First Baptist?

AD: Yeah. I know where First Baptist.

JW: Right up that street.

AD: Okay.

JW: And, then, the ____messenger can then cross St. Paul and he’s right across from me.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm. ____.

AD: Okay.

JW: Next, is a large hole. I mean, there’s one house between me and my brother-in-law’s house, next to the large hole.

AD: Okay.

JW: He bought my brother’s house.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: How often do you come down to the center?

JW: Every day. I didn’t used to because I was out in the country and my tractor got out of shape . . .

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: Or something. And a starter locked up on the thing, and I called in and told them I couldn’t be here.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: _________.

AD: Okay. But, generally you come down, you chat, have lunch . . .

JW: Yeah.

AD: And then you . . . Then you off . . . doing . . . .

JW: The rest of the day. Yeah. I go . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Alright. Well, Mr. Warren, it’s been a pleasure talking to you.

JW: It’s been a pleasure talking to you ‘cause I like to talk to people that I can get something out of them. I hope I can tell somebody something. That’s . . . That’s my motto. At my age, I can’t do no work, but I can sway . . . I was in jail but one time in my life.

AD: When was that?

JW: That was, um, that’s been 40- . . . Let’s see, it’s been 62 years, I believe. Sixty-two years.

AD: Do you remember the day? How long did you stay? You didn’t stay long?

JW: No, I didn’t stay long. Nuh-uh. They just took me and locked me up. And, a man I was working for told them. Well, there were two fellows who jumped over me on First Street. White fellows.

AD: In Richmond?

JW: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Up here? Okay.

JW: Two of them.

AD: Okay.

JW: It was an old man and his stepson.

AD: Okay. They were angry with you or something?

JW: Huh?

AD: Why were they angry with you? Why were they mad at you?

JW: Well, they were drunk.

AD: Okay.

JW: And when we lived in the country, I left . . . I ______ my wife used to have a school route driving the school bus. .

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And I kept my ______. Back in those days, I had fuel for my old vehicles.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I had a GMC, a like new one and we kept our gas down there in those 50 gallon drums.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And this white fellow come. On this one night, he got down there. He run over in the ditch.

AD: Okay.

JW: And they burnt all the gas out of their car trying to get out. So, he come to my house. I wasn’t far from them, but I ______ a little ways of a walk down there.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And he said, “Would you let me have some gas?” Gas wasn’t but about 25 cents then.

AD: Okay.

JW: And, uh, I said yeah, and I let him have this gas. Then, we had a mule there. A great big old mule, we hooked to the car and pulled it out of the ditch. I got him started. He got up on First Street, and he was drunk, and he, uh, called me a black son-of-a-bitch. He said, “I owe you 50 cents, don’t I, you black son-of-a-bitch?” I said, “Listen, I got a name now.” I said, “I have not asked you for this 50 cents.” I said, “I’ve got a name.” “But, I’m going to pay you, you black son-of-a-bitch.” I said, “I told you”. And then, he hit me. When he hit me, I tried to _______ hold a fist. ______ fist in his mouth and nose, and the stepson hid and he stabbed me in the back. And while I was fighting him . . . And this white fellow who was there said, “Now, there are already two fighting, so you stay out of it.”

AD: Okay.

JW: And then, one got a gun. _____ sitting over there. He was, uh, I can’t think of the name. Two brothers. They had killed one of two men and they wanted to get into it. They said they hate to see a nigger drawing blood from the whit man. The other white man over there, he was a friend to me. He said you shoot if you want to. He says if you shoot him, I’m going to shoot you.

AD: Okay.

JW: And, so . . . The landlord then, he come up and say take your _______. I said you stay over there until I come. I says I won’t ________. And I says well, I _____.

AD: Okay.

JW: And white shirt and everything, there’s just blood ___ like red, but, it didn’t come from me. Even when I hit him in the nose, I got him around the neck with the ___string on it.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And the blood come from him. But, his name was Ted Eversole. A mountain man.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And, so, well, it was about . . . I’d say an hour, he come over and got me out. ______ two dead.

AD: Okay.

JW: And the judge says . . . No, it was the jailer who said, “They were drunk!” And I said, “No, I wasn’t. I ain’t had nothing. I ain’t had nothing to drink.” And they said, “Well, how come the fight?” And I said, “They just jumped on me.” ____Lucy told them. Said, “Yeah, they jumped on him.” And you know, then, half a dozen come over that day and said, “Old Man ____, his own _______ at a rich man. He hobbled over there and says, “If everybody . . . If anybody mistreats you, I think they want ______. And so, it never cost me anything.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. How old were you then? Do you remember?

JW: Uh, I was around 55 or 60.

AD: When you had the fight?

JW: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm.

AD: And you were fighting good?

JW: Huh? Oh, Lord, I was just drilling my fist. But, now, I ______ (Laughter). Do you have a husband?

AD: Yes, I do.

JW: I saw that name.

AD: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. I sure do. He’s in Lexington. He’s retired.

JW: He’s retired?

AD: Uh-huh. Concrete finishing, construction. That’s what he used to do.

JW: That’s what I used to do.

AD: Out of . . . Out of Louisville.

JW: Yeah. Uh-huh.

AD: That’s why I knew what you were saying when you said you _________.

JW: Is he a mason?

AD: Hmm? No, he’s not a mason.

JW: He’s not?

AD: Nuh-uh.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: Well, of course, it costs so much now. I got out of ____ because they had one of them, I can’t think of the name. One of them ______, it was like just a poker table, and they got a bar in there.

AD: Okay.

JW: And they said to me one week night, now, Saturday night is your night. I said, “My night for what?” And he said we want you to sell beer, liquor, and wait on the bar. I said, “Me? A Deacon?.” I said “No, just mark me off.“ And I ain’t been back since.

AD: Okay.

JW: But, we got the preacher ___ going to get that back.

AD: Okay.

JW: It cost me around $40 dollars.

AD: Okay.

JW: And I said well . . . I said, “Will that pick up my ____insurance.” And he said yeah. And the Preacher Solomon, you may know . . . Jeff Solomon. He lives in Winchester.

AD: Nuh-uh. I don’t know him.

JW: He’s a good boy. Smart boy.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: And his first wife was kin to my wife, and, uh. . . .but he married another . . .

AD: Okay.

JW: Girl . . . It was very discrete. But, . . . That’s all ________________. I told him it might be my last time as old as I am. I got one ham and I’m going to buy another one and have a ham breakfast. We take communion that morning.

AD: Okay.

JW: Everybody drinks out of the same cup.

AD: Okay.

JW: So, it won’t be a skeleton head. (Laughter). I have drank out of it. I will admit to you. Yeah. Well, I just enjoyed talking with you.

AD: I have too. I need . . . One more thing. Okay? What this is is to certify that you’ve given the tape that I’ve got now over to Eastern Kentucky University?

JW: Given what?

AD: The tape. Okay? I’m collecting the tape. I’m the interviewer.

JW: Yeah.

AD: You’re the interviewee.

JW: Yeah.

AD: And we both sign the paper so I could put this in the tape library at Eastern.

JW: Yeah. My name and address.

AD: Yeah. Uh-huh.

JW: Okay.

AD: So, what is the street number?

JW: Huh?

AD: What’s the number on this . . . Your street address number?

JW: My, oh . . . 428.

AD: Okay.

JW: Four twenty-eight Francis Street.

AD: Right. Four twenty-eight Francis.

JW: Yeah. Uh-huh.

AD: Okay. Francis Street in Richmond, 40475.

JW: That’s right.

AD: Okay. Now, I’m the interviewer, so, I’ve already signed it.

JW: Yeah.

AD: I need for you to sign right here.

JW: Yeah.

AD: Where it says signature up here.

JW: Okay.

AD: Hmm-Mmm.

JW: I used to write pretty good, but it got poor when I’m nervous.

AD: Hmm-Mmm. I know what you mean. Didn’t . . . Didn’t . . . Didn’t the NAACP honor you one time? Did they honor you as a black business man?

JW: Yeah.

AD: I saw your name on a program out there.

JW: Hmm-Mmm. Hmm-Mmm. Now, it’s been 20 years, 25 years.

AD: Honored you as a black business man.

JW: Yeah. Right.

AD: In Richmond?

JW: I was a farmer, but I might have been dog warden.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm. No, it hasn’t been that long.

AD: Okay. Alright. I just wanted to make sure because for a long time, I would ask people about, uh, older citizens, and I would . . . I thought they were saying Jade, but they were saying Jave.

JW: Jave. Yeah. That’s my name.

AD: Yeah.

JW: An old German woman named me after her son.

AD: Jave.

JW: He killed hisself working.

AD: Okay.

JW: He set out an acre of tobacco. He pulled the plants and picked it out with his fingers, by hand. And he just lived three days. They said the sun was shining down and they said he had a brain stroke.

AD: Okay.

JW: Hmm-Mmm.

AD: Alright. Mr. Warren, thank you so very much.

JW: Thank you. And I’d like to meet your husband. Maybe I will sometime.

AD: Okay.

JW: Yes, sir.

AD: Alright.

JW: And if he’s as nice as you are . . . If everybody’s as nice as you are, we’d have a better world.

AD: Well, thank you.

JW: And I’ve lived a Christian life all of my life. I drunk two times in my early life.

AD: Yeah. We all go through that.

JW: Then, I turned around, half way around. I didn’t turn all the way. If I turned all the way, I’d have been in the same spot.

AD: Same spot.

JW: Right.

AD: Yeah. Right.

JW: _____.

AD: Okay.

JW: Yes, sir.

AD: Well . . .

JW: Anything that I can do to help you. You’ve got my telephone number?

AD: No, I don’t. What is it?

JW: Six-two-three.

AD: Six-two-three. Uh-huh.

JW: Two-two-four-one.

AD: Two-two-four-one.

JW: Right.

AD: Alright, sir. Well, you’ll be seeing me down for four . . . A few more times.

JW: Yeah.

AD: Because I’m going to make arrangements to talk to some of the ladies here.

JW: Right. Right. Right.

AD: They said they’d be more comfortable doing it down here.

JW: Yeah.

AD: Yeah.

(Three knocks on the door.)

JW: Three knocks. ______.

AD: Yeah. I was . . . I was _____.

Another voice: What are you doing? _____. We were waiting on you. Well, thank you, Miss . . .

AD: Dunston.

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2.